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chaleyit · 01-10-2005, 11:55 AM

It is fruitless to argue against you because there is no way we will be able to prove it. It is true that Marciano had 49 consecutive wins, a magnificent feat in any area. However, in my opinion, none of his opponent were of a caliber of even a Floyd Patterson. I agree that Patterson was not one of the all time greats, you are correct. However, I do not think Marciano could have beat him because he was fast, and he would not stand still for a Marciano head on attack. Just my opinion. Again I say all of Marciano opponents were either past their prime and near retirement or just low quality. He would not have faired well in an era with fighters like Ali, Frazier, and even Foreman.

I did a simulation with Marciano and Dempsey. Here is what happened.

[

I]Right at the bell of the opening round, Marciano came on strong, scoring heavily against Jack Dempsey. The latter did not waste any time retaliating and actually had Rocky on the run after hurting him with a vicious combination towards the end of the round. Both fighters scored heavily and the crowd was going wild. The first round went to Dempsey.

After a very slow second round the action picked up again in third with Dempsey making up for losing the slow 2nd round. Once again both fighters were throwing leather, but Dempsey’s speed was giving him a definite advantage. In the fourth, everyone was shocked when Marciano was floored by a Dempsey right cross. He was down until the count of nine, taking as much time as he could to regroup. According to Rocky “I was definitely hurt, I didn’t realize he (Dempsey) could hit so hard. Marciano, though admittedly hurt, was able to get up and even mount an offensive. Dempsey wins the fourth, the fifth is slower in comparison but still good action and it is scored as even. Once again the action and the pace heated up in the sixth which saw Dempsey come out on top. Marciano stages a huge offensive and wins the seventh round, only to see Dempsey rally in the eighth. Jack through a right cross that hurt Rocky in the eighth, Rocky, though hurt and covering, still managed to get in some heavy shots himself. The round went to Dempsey who at that point had a pretty big lead.

According to Teddy Hayes, Dempsey’s trainer, “After eight I knew my boy was in the lead. So I tells him, I says, Jack, all you gotta do is stay busy in there, and don’t get caught with one of this guy’s big shots. He (Marciano) is a heavy puncher, but you got him where you want him, he is gonna be desperate, use that to your advantage”.

Indeed Marciano came out with the intent of making up for lost ground in the ninth, but Dempsey, though taking some good shots, out boxed him to win the round. The tenth started out slow, but then got heated. In the sizzling action, a Marciano left hook, sent Dempsey reeling into the ropes. Teddy Hayes saw his fighter struggling desperately to hang on. Dempsey’s defensive skills pull him through a round that Marciano won big.

“I told Rock that we were behind and that he had to get out there take this guy out. I really thought Rock could take this guy, I didn’t realize just how good a fighter he (Dempsey) is.” Chuck Goldman, Marciano’s Trainer.

After Dempsey won the eleventh, everyone expected Rocky Marciano to let it all hang out for the KO in the 12th and final round. Instead, the Brockton Blockbuster came out in a normal boxing strategy. “Truth is”, says Marciano, “I just didn’t have anything left at that point, I just wanted to get through the round without collapsing.”

It came as no surprise that the unanimous decision went to the Manassa Mauler and by a pretty good margin as he consistently out boxed Marciano all during the fight. Despite the brutal action, both fighters were relatively unmarked save a few bruises.
Each fighter spoke highly of the other and the crowd gave the warriors a standing ovation for their efforts. It was totally obvious that we were watching two masters of the ring. [/i]

Of course it is just a simulation and it proves nothing. In another simulation Marciano defeated Harry Wills, so there goes my theory up in smoke.

Thanks for your opinion Mr Big.

01-10-2005, 11:55 AM	#17 (permalink)
chaleyit Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: PA, USA Posts: 345	It is fruitless to argue against you because there is no way we will be able to prove it. It is true that Marciano had 49 consecutive wins, a magnificent feat in any area. However, in my opinion, none of his opponent were of a caliber of even a Floyd Patterson. I agree that Patterson was not one of the all time greats, you are correct. However, I do not think Marciano could have beat him because he was fast, and he would not stand still for a Marciano head on attack. Just my opinion. Again I say all of Marciano opponents were either past their prime and near retirement or just low quality. He would not have faired well in an era with fighters like Ali, Frazier, and even Foreman. I did a simulation with Marciano and Dempsey. Here is what happened. [ I]Right at the bell of the opening round, Marciano came on strong, scoring heavily against Jack Dempsey. The latter did not waste any time retaliating and actually had Rocky on the run after hurting him with a vicious combination towards the end of the round. Both fighters scored heavily and the crowd was going wild. The first round went to Dempsey. After a very slow second round the action picked up again in third with Dempsey making up for losing the slow 2nd round. Once again both fighters were throwing leather, but Dempsey’s speed was giving him a definite advantage. In the fourth, everyone was shocked when Marciano was floored by a Dempsey right cross. He was down until the count of nine, taking as much time as he could to regroup. According to Rocky “I was definitely hurt, I didn’t realize he (Dempsey) could hit so hard. Marciano, though admittedly hurt, was able to get up and even mount an offensive. Dempsey wins the fourth, the fifth is slower in comparison but still good action and it is scored as even. Once again the action and the pace heated up in the sixth which saw Dempsey come out on top. Marciano stages a huge offensive and wins the seventh round, only to see Dempsey rally in the eighth. Jack through a right cross that hurt Rocky in the eighth, Rocky, though hurt and covering, still managed to get in some heavy shots himself. The round went to Dempsey who at that point had a pretty big lead. According to Teddy Hayes, Dempsey’s trainer, “After eight I knew my boy was in the lead. So I tells him, I says, Jack, all you gotta do is stay busy in there, and don’t get caught with one of this guy’s big shots. He (Marciano) is a heavy puncher, but you got him where you want him, he is gonna be desperate, use that to your advantage”. Indeed Marciano came out with the intent of making up for lost ground in the ninth, but Dempsey, though taking some good shots, out boxed him to win the round. The tenth started out slow, but then got heated. In the sizzling action, a Marciano left hook, sent Dempsey reeling into the ropes. Teddy Hayes saw his fighter struggling desperately to hang on. Dempsey’s defensive skills pull him through a round that Marciano won big. “I told Rock that we were behind and that he had to get out there take this guy out. I really thought Rock could take this guy, I didn’t realize just how good a fighter he (Dempsey) is.” Chuck Goldman, Marciano’s Trainer. After Dempsey won the eleventh, everyone expected Rocky Marciano to let it all hang out for the KO in the 12th and final round. Instead, the Brockton Blockbuster came out in a normal boxing strategy. “Truth is”, says Marciano, “I just didn’t have anything left at that point, I just wanted to get through the round without collapsing.” It came as no surprise that the unanimous decision went to the Manassa Mauler and by a pretty good margin as he consistently out boxed Marciano all during the fight. Despite the brutal action, both fighters were relatively unmarked save a few bruises. Each fighter spoke highly of the other and the crowd gave the warriors a standing ovation for their efforts. It was totally obvious that we were watching two masters of the ring. [/i] Of course it is just a simulation and it proves nothing. In another simulation Marciano defeated Harry Wills, so there goes my theory up in smoke. Thanks for your opinion Mr Big. __________________ Life is God's joke on us, so laugh often so She knows you get it. Last edited by chaleyit : 01-10-2005 at 12:08 PM.