OOTP Developments Forums - View Single Post

sixto · 12-13-2002, 01:00 PM

There's two questions here: who would you pick, and who do you think the committee will pick? Sadly, historically they are 2 completely different questions.

The veterans committee ballot - players

Players: Dick Allen, Bobby Bonds, Ken Boyer, Rocky Colavito, Wes Ferrell, Curt Flood, Joe Gordon, Gil Hodges, Elston Howard, Ted Kluszewski, Mickey Lolich, Marty Marion, Roger Maris, Mike Marshall, Carl Mays, Bob Meusel, Minnie Minoso, Thurman Munson, Don Newcombe, Tony Oliva, Vada Pinson, Allie Reynolds, Ron Santo, Joe Torre, Ken Williams, Maury Wills.

Some of my thoughts:
Rocky Colavito - what an awesome stretch he had, but like Boyer, and Mays, and many others, he couldn't sustain it.

Wes Ferrell - "greatest hitting pitcher" was very good for 8 years. Eight is enough?

Joe Gordon - a 9-time all-star in an 11-season career. He was a very very good player, but not for long enough. His career stats scream "Jeff Kent." Would you vote Jeff Kent into the HOF, today?

Marty Marion - a nod to defense is nice, but, no way.

Bob Meusel - you see a pattern here if you look at every player's stats: a lot of 11-, 12-, 13-year careers where the players either had exceptional peaks or a brilliant but short career.

Minnie Minoso, Don Newcombe, Thurman Munson - when Amos Otis and Dennis Leonard and Terry Steinbach are among your strongest career matches, you know there's something special about you as a person if they're talking about you for the HOF. Newcombe doesn't have the color line argument as he debuted at 23. Dave Stewart has a better claim. Newcombe benefits as many have from the national fascination with the Brooklyn Dodgers.

Tony Oliva - lotta black and gray ink for the 3-time batting champ. Another guy with an 8-year superpeak. Oliva really petered out but hung on longer than some of these other candidates.

Allie Reynolds - you start to feel, when you look at Reynolds and the pitchers who are like him, that 200 wins should be considered a minimum for consideration in the HOF. I'm not saying that should be an instituted rule, but there are literally dozens of guys like Reynolds who could all go in. His winning % matched the Yankees during his years there - .630. You think the Yanks are a dynasty now?

Ron Santo, Joe Torre - I don't know. I have a spreadsheet somewhere of 15 very good 3B who are not in the HOF, and Santo (and Boyer) are just 2 of many. But when you add up all the numbers, for me, Santo and Torre are the best eligible players not in the HOF or on the BBWAA ballot. Dick Allen's numbers are also certainly pretty eye-popping, but I just don't know about him.

Who's in for me: Santo, Torre
Who I think they'll vote in: Santo

I'm skipping the execs and managers, but I think Billy Martin will get voted in and I'll put in a darkhorse vote for Marvin Miller. Walter O'Malley also is very worthy.

12-13-2002, 01:00 PM	#1 (permalink)
sixto Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,251 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1x in 1 post	HOF: Veterans ballot There's two questions here: who would you pick, and who do you think the committee will pick? Sadly, historically they are 2 completely different questions. The veterans committee ballot - players Players: Dick Allen, Bobby Bonds, Ken Boyer, Rocky Colavito, Wes Ferrell, Curt Flood, Joe Gordon, Gil Hodges, Elston Howard, Ted Kluszewski, Mickey Lolich, Marty Marion, Roger Maris, Mike Marshall, Carl Mays, Bob Meusel, Minnie Minoso, Thurman Munson, Don Newcombe, Tony Oliva, Vada Pinson, Allie Reynolds, Ron Santo, Joe Torre, Ken Williams, Maury Wills. Some of my thoughts: Rocky Colavito - what an awesome stretch he had, but like Boyer, and Mays, and many others, he couldn't sustain it. Wes Ferrell - "greatest hitting pitcher" was very good for 8 years. Eight is enough? Joe Gordon - a 9-time all-star in an 11-season career. He was a very very good player, but not for long enough. His career stats scream "Jeff Kent." Would you vote Jeff Kent into the HOF, today? Marty Marion - a nod to defense is nice, but, no way. Bob Meusel - you see a pattern here if you look at every player's stats: a lot of 11-, 12-, 13-year careers where the players either had exceptional peaks or a brilliant but short career. Minnie Minoso, Don Newcombe, Thurman Munson - when Amos Otis and Dennis Leonard and Terry Steinbach are among your strongest career matches, you know there's something special about you as a person if they're talking about you for the HOF. Newcombe doesn't have the color line argument as he debuted at 23. Dave Stewart has a better claim. Newcombe benefits as many have from the national fascination with the Brooklyn Dodgers. Tony Oliva - lotta black and gray ink for the 3-time batting champ. Another guy with an 8-year superpeak. Oliva really petered out but hung on longer than some of these other candidates. Allie Reynolds - you start to feel, when you look at Reynolds and the pitchers who are like him, that 200 wins should be considered a minimum for consideration in the HOF. I'm not saying that should be an instituted rule, but there are literally dozens of guys like Reynolds who could all go in. His winning % matched the Yankees during his years there - .630. You think the Yanks are a dynasty now? Ron Santo, Joe Torre - I don't know. I have a spreadsheet somewhere of 15 very good 3B who are not in the HOF, and Santo (and Boyer) are just 2 of many. But when you add up all the numbers, for me, Santo and Torre are the best eligible players not in the HOF or on the BBWAA ballot. Dick Allen's numbers are also certainly pretty eye-popping, but I just don't know about him. Who's in for me: Santo, Torre Who I think they'll vote in: Santo I'm skipping the execs and managers, but I think Billy Martin will get voted in and I'll put in a darkhorse vote for Marvin Miller. Walter O'Malley also is very worthy.