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HomicideHenry · 10-16-2006, 12:31 AM

I take into consideration alot of things, and not just by records. Alot of people universally consider THE best HW champion to either be Ali or Louis. But I have read an article that quoted Joe Louis as saying that his greatest weakness was being crowded, and he said that even in his prime he didn't think he could have ever beaten Rocky.

Muhammad Ali was dropped by a body shot from the 45 year old Marciano who hadn't fought in 15 years. Ali said he was astonished by how hard it was to hit Marciano with a solid shot, and even asked for extra money because of the tremendous body shots he took during filming of the computer fight with Marciano in 1969.

Remember the general idea for the computer fight was that body shots could be thrown for real, but head shots were to be pulled. Ali was once quoted as saying that he couldn't imagine a prime Marciano, because even at 45 Rocky was so strong.

In an ironic sense the computer was right in picking the style of Marciano to beat Ali, as when Ali fought Frazier he had his first loss, and oddly enough was dropped by a left hook in the 15th, which was the same punch that Marciano threw to 'KO' Ali in the computer fight.

Alot of people say that Frazier could have beaten Marciano, but alot of people don't take into consideration that, even though Joe did fight like Marciano, he was too aggressive, which left him open for shots. And Joe really only had power in his left hook, as Marciano had power in both.

What alot of people fail to consider is that Rocky was under-rated defensively, because though it looked like he was taking alot of punishment, ask guys like Roland LaStarza who were as technically superior as anyone else in that era, that Marciano was alot harder to hit than thought.

I think Marciano could have pretty much beaten the majority of the HW champions, past and present. His conditioning was above and beyond anyone in the history of the game, his determination was second to none. If he was fighting a 15 round fight, he would train as if the fight was going to be scheduled for 45 rounds, he trained like the old bare-knuckle fighters.

Also, alot of people say he was too small. No. Marciano's actual weight was around 200+ pounds, he trained DOWN to that weight and condition, he was solid as a rock; Joe Louis once said that even bumping into Marciano hurt.

The only man that's hard for me to see Marciano beating is George Foreman, but then again, Marciano wasn't Joe Frazier. Marciano was more defensive, he had unparallel determination, uncanny power in both hands and unmeasurable endurance, as well as having an odd style.

If Marciano could get passed the first few rounds, I think he could have beaten Foreman, because George [then] was mentally weak, and anyone who could show him up made George break down inside. George was also a sloppy fighter and Ali showed that his endurance wasn't that great.

George also would swing wild shots, bringing them back and swopping them around in huge circular motion...Marciano would have ducked down incredibly low, pounced and tear into Foreman's body with non-stop punches. Marciano threw short hooks with all his body weight behind them, the shorter the hooks the greater the velocity.

Same with Sonny Liston, though beating Liston would be more mental than a physical one, since Liston was more proficient skill wise.

In my mind Rocky is the best, but then again, that's more faith than actual fact. I have done my own tournament and Marciano and Ali were the final two with Joe Louis being third, but computer or not, I don't think anyone can really measure how big his heart was.

Rocky would rather have died trying in the ring than to kick up his heels and slow up, give up or shut down.

10-16-2006, 12:31 AM	#7 (permalink)
HomicideHenry Bat Boy Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 11	I take into consideration alot of things, and not just by records. Alot of people universally consider THE best HW champion to either be Ali or Louis. But I have read an article that quoted Joe Louis as saying that his greatest weakness was being crowded, and he said that even in his prime he didn't think he could have ever beaten Rocky. Muhammad Ali was dropped by a body shot from the 45 year old Marciano who hadn't fought in 15 years. Ali said he was astonished by how hard it was to hit Marciano with a solid shot, and even asked for extra money because of the tremendous body shots he took during filming of the computer fight with Marciano in 1969. Remember the general idea for the computer fight was that body shots could be thrown for real, but head shots were to be pulled. Ali was once quoted as saying that he couldn't imagine a prime Marciano, because even at 45 Rocky was so strong. In an ironic sense the computer was right in picking the style of Marciano to beat Ali, as when Ali fought Frazier he had his first loss, and oddly enough was dropped by a left hook in the 15th, which was the same punch that Marciano threw to 'KO' Ali in the computer fight. Alot of people say that Frazier could have beaten Marciano, but alot of people don't take into consideration that, even though Joe did fight like Marciano, he was too aggressive, which left him open for shots. And Joe really only had power in his left hook, as Marciano had power in both. What alot of people fail to consider is that Rocky was under-rated defensively, because though it looked like he was taking alot of punishment, ask guys like Roland LaStarza who were as technically superior as anyone else in that era, that Marciano was alot harder to hit than thought. I think Marciano could have pretty much beaten the majority of the HW champions, past and present. His conditioning was above and beyond anyone in the history of the game, his determination was second to none. If he was fighting a 15 round fight, he would train as if the fight was going to be scheduled for 45 rounds, he trained like the old bare-knuckle fighters. Also, alot of people say he was too small. No. Marciano's actual weight was around 200+ pounds, he trained DOWN to that weight and condition, he was solid as a rock; Joe Louis once said that even bumping into Marciano hurt. The only man that's hard for me to see Marciano beating is George Foreman, but then again, Marciano wasn't Joe Frazier. Marciano was more defensive, he had unparallel determination, uncanny power in both hands and unmeasurable endurance, as well as having an odd style. If Marciano could get passed the first few rounds, I think he could have beaten Foreman, because George [then] was mentally weak, and anyone who could show him up made George break down inside. George was also a sloppy fighter and Ali showed that his endurance wasn't that great. George also would swing wild shots, bringing them back and swopping them around in huge circular motion...Marciano would have ducked down incredibly low, pounced and tear into Foreman's body with non-stop punches. Marciano threw short hooks with all his body weight behind them, the shorter the hooks the greater the velocity. Same with Sonny Liston, though beating Liston would be more mental than a physical one, since Liston was more proficient skill wise. In my mind Rocky is the best, but then again, that's more faith than actual fact. I have done my own tournament and Marciano and Ali were the final two with Joe Louis being third, but computer or not, I don't think anyone can really measure how big his heart was. Rocky would rather have died trying in the ring than to kick up his heels and slow up, give up or shut down.