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ucclark · 02-20-2003, 12:27 PM

Clearly, if you put Jack Dempsey or Joe Louis in a time machine and brought them to 2003, they'd be in trouble. Yes, they could beat up Brian Nielsen, just like they beat up the out of shape reprobates of their own day (Two Ton Tony Galento, who made Nielsen look like Mr. Universe, knocked Joe Louis down, remember). But they could not compete with guys like Lennox Lewis, either Kltischko, a prime Holyfield or Tyson, or a prime Riddick Bowe. They would just be too small and too weak.

On the other hand, if you gave Jack Dempsey access to modern methods of training, dietary supplements, and the like, he wouldn't be a 185 pound guy with a great chin and devastating power, he would be a 225 pound guy with a great chin and devastating power. Still, Dempsey, Louis and the like never had to deal with anything quite like the super-sized Lewis, Klitscho, et al. Dempsey did destroy Jess Willard, but Jess Willard wasn't exactly Lennox Lewis. Of course, an old, tired Holyfield had a pretty good second fight with Lewis (I had him ahead until the 9th round), so I think they could at least compete.

Even in the smaller weight classes, I think the top guys are better conditioned and better skilled than the fighters of days past, but that is only because they have had the benefit of the knowledge learned over time.

A great fighter in one era would be great in any era, provided you accounted for the fact that he was granted access to high quality modern training methods, corner men, etc. If you simply teleported them in without allowing for modern preparation, the top guys of today would generally beat the top guys of yesterday. The idea that the modern fighters stink is largely a combination of the following:

1) Fogeyism - as we get older, we tend to glorify the past (which we have ever more of) and look down upon the present (as we approach our inevitable doom). We all do it.

2) False measurement - When you think "old time fighter", the names are Robinson, Dempsey, Armstrong, Louis, Ali, Greb, Zale, etc. When you think "modern fighter", it William Joppy, Emanuel Augustus, Brian Nielsen, Attilla Levin......you can't compare 80 years of all-stars to the current crop of fighters, it's unfair. The All-Stars of today, like Jones, Lewis, Barrera, and Hopkins could match up well with just about anyone of any era. "Jack Dempsey would dominate Brian Nielsen" is about as relevant as "Lennox Lewis would dominate Fireman Jim Flynn and Willie Meehan."

02-20-2003, 12:27 PM	#13 (permalink)
ucclark Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 220 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 posts	Clearly, if you put Jack Dempsey or Joe Louis in a time machine and brought them to 2003, they'd be in trouble. Yes, they could beat up Brian Nielsen, just like they beat up the out of shape reprobates of their own day (Two Ton Tony Galento, who made Nielsen look like Mr. Universe, knocked Joe Louis down, remember). But they could not compete with guys like Lennox Lewis, either Kltischko, a prime Holyfield or Tyson, or a prime Riddick Bowe. They would just be too small and too weak. On the other hand, if you gave Jack Dempsey access to modern methods of training, dietary supplements, and the like, he wouldn't be a 185 pound guy with a great chin and devastating power, he would be a 225 pound guy with a great chin and devastating power. Still, Dempsey, Louis and the like never had to deal with anything quite like the super-sized Lewis, Klitscho, et al. Dempsey did destroy Jess Willard, but Jess Willard wasn't exactly Lennox Lewis. Of course, an old, tired Holyfield had a pretty good second fight with Lewis (I had him ahead until the 9th round), so I think they could at least compete. Even in the smaller weight classes, I think the top guys are better conditioned and better skilled than the fighters of days past, but that is only because they have had the benefit of the knowledge learned over time. A great fighter in one era would be great in any era, provided you accounted for the fact that he was granted access to high quality modern training methods, corner men, etc. If you simply teleported them in without allowing for modern preparation, the top guys of today would generally beat the top guys of yesterday. The idea that the modern fighters stink is largely a combination of the following: 1) Fogeyism - as we get older, we tend to glorify the past (which we have ever more of) and look down upon the present (as we approach our inevitable doom). We all do it. 2) False measurement - When you think "old time fighter", the names are Robinson, Dempsey, Armstrong, Louis, Ali, Greb, Zale, etc. When you think "modern fighter", it William Joppy, Emanuel Augustus, Brian Nielsen, Attilla Levin......you can't compare 80 years of all-stars to the current crop of fighters, it's unfair. The All-Stars of today, like Jones, Lewis, Barrera, and Hopkins could match up well with just about anyone of any era. "Jack Dempsey would dominate Brian Nielsen" is about as relevant as "Lennox Lewis would dominate Fireman Jim Flynn and Willie Meehan."