Expensive Players at AAA or lower?

kserra · 02-27-2002, 05:04 AM

Since we are all anxiously waiting for the newest version to come out, I thought I'd ask a few questions about issues that weren't quite perfect with the previous versions...

--Have you guys seen the computer AI still putting expensive players in the minors instead of dealing them or releasing them?

--How is the computer at dealing with a salary cap? As we've seen in the Front Office Football series, even a very good game has a tough time dealing with this. Does the computer do a decent job of reducing costs (releasing or trading nonperforming expensive vets) and managing the rosters?

--I know this has been asked before, but I'm still a bit unsure about this (and no, I can't just wait 2 days to find out! heh)...do minor league stats have any reflection on a players talent level now? Reason why I ask this is because I will be using the reduced ratings visibility option, and one key way of knowing if a player is ready at AAA should be his stats...plus it would be great if a player tearing up Single-A ball could mean that you have a sleeper down there, instead of seemingly random pure luck...

--As always...how about the AI trading? Not only with offers towards human owners (will we need to make rules in regards to trading again) but also, do you notice teams in contention giving up prospects for a key veteran for the pennant stretch...do teams build around specific philosphies--some on speed...power...fielding...pitching?

--How about long-term player development? Have you seen many busts/surprises...

--Do all players fatigue at the same rate? I know that catchers fatigue faster, but will my 1B fatigue in the same way as other 1B in the league? Is it simply based on games started in a row? Does pinch hitting start for a game played in the fatigue equation?

Not sure how many of these can be answered right now...but I was hoping to get a few more insights. Unfortunatly I have a coaches clinic all day Friday and Saturday in Toledo so I won't get my hands on the game till Sunday! Lots of work around the house is going to be ignored for the next few weekends!

Kevin

Steve Kuffrey · 02-27-2002, 05:15 AM

I'll touch on a few but some are answered in threads recently and can be found by doing a search.

-Expensive players at AAA, I have seen this rarely and the players contract are for much less than before. It is not unrealistic to have this happen from time to time but not too often. The game handles this much better than before.

-Trading AI is improved but as always you are NEVER going to please everyone with this area of a game, it just cannot be done.

-I think the player development is great as I have had guys come out of nowhere and do well and others sure things go down the toilet.

-Player fatigue does not occur at the same rate and is an unseen rating so it is something that you will have to learn with your players.

Sorry for the short answers but much to do....

Scott Vibert · 02-27-2002, 05:17 AM

[quote]Originally posted by kserra:
Since we are all anxiously waiting for the newest version to come out, I thought I'd ask a few questions about issues that weren't quite perfect with the previous versions...

--Have you guys seen the computer AI still putting expensive players in the minors instead of dealing them or releasing them?
In the Majors Contracts are guarenteed, so releasing expensive deadweight puts a strain on your cash available, as the entire balance of the contract comes due. (Which is the reason the Red Sox couldn't release Mike Lansings 6.5 million last year, or Offermans 8 million this year) Trading these players is tough, because the other teams don't want the deadweight either, you will get a comment saying all x-player does is eat money. However the computer AI does seem to have fewer big money players in the minors now. (The financials are receiving a lot of attention in the beta forum)

--How is the computer at dealing with a salary cap? As we've seen in the Front Office Football series, even a very good game has a tough time dealing with this. Does the computer do a decent job of reducing costs (releasing or trading nonperforming expensive vets) and managing the rosters?
See above comment.

--I know this has been asked before, but I'm still a bit unsure about this (and no, I can't just wait 2 days to find out! heh)...do minor league stats have any reflection on a players talent level now? Reason why I ask this is because I will be using the reduced ratings visibility option, and one key way of knowing if a player is ready at AAA should be his stats...plus it would be great if a player tearing up Single-A ball could mean that you have a sleeper down there, instead of seemingly random pure luck...
 Reduced ratings are fun and more difficult.

I haven't done enough comparison with the development of minor leaguers to give a more informed answer than that. (I am the shortest tenured of the beta testers)

--As always...how about the AI trading? Not only with offers towards human owners (will we need to make rules in regards to trading again) but also, do you notice teams in contention giving up prospects for a key veteran for the pennant stretch...do teams build around specific philosphies--some on speed...power...fielding...pitching?
 The trading AI is much improved, but remember in all computer games, eventually you will figure out the rules that the AI is governed by and find ways around it, while the AI is forced to conform to the same old rules. There are many more trades at the deadline... although I'm stuck at work, so that I can't report on just what kind of the trades the deadline deals were, but they seem a bit better. Teams don't seem to build by philosiphy; they attempt to shore up the teams weaknesses (as determined by the AI).

--How about long-term player development? Have you seen many busts/surprises...
Haven't tested this fully, see above answer.

--Do all players fatigue at the same rate? I know that catchers fatigue faster, but will my 1B fatigue in the same way as other 1B in the league? Is it simply based on games started in a row? Does pinch hitting start for a game played in the fatigue equation?
No different players fatigue at different rates, the rating is random, I'm not sure about everything in the equation, whether pinch hitting counts, but managers (in real life) tend to try and avoid sending their starters into the game if they are intentionally trying to rest the player.

Not sure how many of these can be answered right now...but I was hoping to get a few more insights. Unfortunatly I have a coaches clinic all day Friday and Saturday in Toledo so I won't get my hands on the game till Sunday! Lots of work around the house is going to be ignored for the next few weekends!
Kevin<hr></blockquote>

Hope these help at least a little bit, sorry I couldn't be more helpful.

Jason H. · 02-27-2002, 05:24 AM

Thanks for the replies to the original poster. I, too, am watching this thread since it is similar to the post I just made on the 'Some help on new version please.' thread.

The one question that was danced around was the relationship of minor league stats to a players abilities. In other words, how many ratings are actually 'hidden' or allow a player who looks 'normal' to be a big stud?? Are minor league stats random or based purely on visible ratings? Just curious...

Steve Kuffrey · 02-27-2002, 05:26 AM

If you will do a search of the topic "minor league stats" you will find a decent amount of discussion on the issue. The minor league games are simulated with the same engine that the regular games are just to give you that info.

kserra · 02-27-2002, 05:36 AM

Wow! You guys are awesome...thanks for the replies...

This might be the most excited I've ever been about a game...plus, my favorite online league is starting back up! Oh happy days!

Kevin

XBL Detroit Tigers

Jason H. · 02-27-2002, 05:48 AM

So...how many ratings are actually hidden?

You've already sold me on the game. Actually...you had me at 'if'...

Scott Vibert · 02-27-2002, 05:54 AM

[quote]Originally posted by Jason:
So...how many ratings are actually hidden?

<hr></blockquote>

You never see the actual ratings... just what your scout thinks and even good scouts make mistakes.

So I guess that would mean they all are... (and there is even a mode where you you don't even get ratings to judge your players on, you must go by performance, so I guess then they are really hidden

)

Backintheday · 02-27-2002, 05:56 AM

Hey Kevin, good to see you around!

I am not a betatester but here are my thoughts on minor league stats and being ready. I think some of this will change as we can manage the minor leagues but I do not think the game engine has changed in how games are processed. The minor leagues use the same engine as the majors. For holes in lineups, etc...the game uses "ghost" players who are average rated. The minor league teams goes against "I'm assuming" a team of average minor leaguers. Therefore, all stats generated is how your player would fare against average rated players for that level. (side note: it would be cool for future versions if your minor league team played the minor league teams from other teams..)
That said, what I look at in stats for pitchers is k/bb ratio and hits/9innings. ERA, as in real life, isn't going to tell much in the minors. For the hitters, I look at how often they make contact and obp. As in real life, guys can tear it up in the minors and fail at the Big Show (see: Ruben Rivera and Ruben Mateo)

Chris

kserra · 02-27-2002, 06:16 AM

Hey Chris!

Yeah, someday, maybe version 5, it would be awesome if minor league teams played each other...and dare I say, even keep track of standings and stats...

That would be some depth!

The more I see this game developing, the more I keep dreaming it will become a Championship Manager type game for baseball...with the addition of hidden ratings and more player personality, OOTP is creating a richer, more detailed world to lose ourselves in...

So Chris...wanna start talking trade for the XBL?

Kevin
XBL Detroit Tigers

ScottFalk · 02-27-2002, 06:40 AM

[quote]Originally posted by Backintheday:
As in real life, guys can tear it up in the minors and fail at the Big Show (see: Ruben Rivera and Ruben Mateo)

Chris<hr></blockquote>

Why is it that these guys always end up on the Reds? Uhg!

DarkLight · 02-27-2002, 06:54 AM

On the flip side, George Brett never hit .300 in the minors.

kserra · 02-27-2002, 07:10 AM

so the Tigers "hot" prospects have a shot then I guess...

With Inge hitting .100 in the last month, our CF of the future Torres and SS Infante both being slap hitters at best...maybe I can ignore their minor league stats too...

Kevin

Backintheday · 02-27-2002, 07:20 AM

Kevin,
Yeah, we need to! It's just good to talk ANYTHING XBL after the layoff.

What I think will be interesting with the minors in version 4 is the injuries the players could suffer there. It's another step to the CM that we all dream of this franchise becoming.

perez24 · 02-27-2002, 07:22 AM

[quote]Originally posted by Backintheday:
Hey Kevin, good to see you around!

As in real life, guys can tear it up in the minors and fail at the Big Show (see: Ruben Rivera and Ruben Mateo)

Chris<hr></blockquote>

Actually, Mateo is my starting CF for the Reds and I can count on 2 things:
1. A really hot April
2. A torn ACL/concussion/earache knocking him out for the season sometime after he cools off in May.

But he's fun while he lasts.

02-27-2002, 05:04 AM	#1
kserra Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 91	Expensive Players at AAA or lower? Since we are all anxiously waiting for the newest version to come out, I thought I'd ask a few questions about issues that weren't quite perfect with the previous versions... --Have you guys seen the computer AI still putting expensive players in the minors instead of dealing them or releasing them? --How is the computer at dealing with a salary cap? As we've seen in the Front Office Football series, even a very good game has a tough time dealing with this. Does the computer do a decent job of reducing costs (releasing or trading nonperforming expensive vets) and managing the rosters? --I know this has been asked before, but I'm still a bit unsure about this (and no, I can't just wait 2 days to find out! heh)...do minor league stats have any reflection on a players talent level now? Reason why I ask this is because I will be using the reduced ratings visibility option, and one key way of knowing if a player is ready at AAA should be his stats...plus it would be great if a player tearing up Single-A ball could mean that you have a sleeper down there, instead of seemingly random pure luck... --As always...how about the AI trading? Not only with offers towards human owners (will we need to make rules in regards to trading again) but also, do you notice teams in contention giving up prospects for a key veteran for the pennant stretch...do teams build around specific philosphies--some on speed...power...fielding...pitching? --How about long-term player development? Have you seen many busts/surprises... --Do all players fatigue at the same rate? I know that catchers fatigue faster, but will my 1B fatigue in the same way as other 1B in the league? Is it simply based on games started in a row? Does pinch hitting start for a game played in the fatigue equation? Not sure how many of these can be answered right now...but I was hoping to get a few more insights. Unfortunatly I have a coaches clinic all day Friday and Saturday in Toledo so I won't get my hands on the game till Sunday! Lots of work around the house is going to be ignored for the next few weekends! Kevin

02-27-2002, 05:15 AM	#2
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,022	I'll touch on a few but some are answered in threads recently and can be found by doing a search. -Expensive players at AAA, I have seen this rarely and the players contract are for much less than before. It is not unrealistic to have this happen from time to time but not too often. The game handles this much better than before. -Trading AI is improved but as always you are NEVER going to please everyone with this area of a game, it just cannot be done. -I think the player development is great as I have had guys come out of nowhere and do well and others sure things go down the toilet. -Player fatigue does not occur at the same rate and is an unseen rating so it is something that you will have to learn with your players. Sorry for the short answers but much to do.... __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

02-27-2002, 05:17 AM	#3
Scott Vibert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: My Computer Posts: 8,182	[quote]Originally posted by kserra: <strong>Since we are all anxiously waiting for the newest version to come out, I thought I'd ask a few questions about issues that weren't quite perfect with the previous versions... --Have you guys seen the computer AI still putting expensive players in the minors instead of dealing them or releasing them? </strong>In the Majors Contracts are guarenteed, so releasing expensive deadweight puts a strain on your cash available, as the entire balance of the contract comes due. (Which is the reason the Red Sox couldn't release Mike Lansings 6.5 million last year, or Offermans 8 million this year) Trading these players is tough, because the other teams don't want the deadweight either, you will get a comment saying all x-player does is eat money. However the computer AI does seem to have fewer big money players in the minors now. (The financials are receiving a lot of attention in the beta forum) <strong> --How is the computer at dealing with a salary cap? As we've seen in the Front Office Football series, even a very good game has a tough time dealing with this. Does the computer do a decent job of reducing costs (releasing or trading nonperforming expensive vets) and managing the rosters? </strong>See above comment. <strong> --I know this has been asked before, but I'm still a bit unsure about this (and no, I can't just wait 2 days to find out! heh)...do minor league stats have any reflection on a players talent level now? Reason why I ask this is because I will be using the reduced ratings visibility option, and one key way of knowing if a player is ready at AAA should be his stats...plus it would be great if a player tearing up Single-A ball could mean that you have a sleeper down there, instead of seemingly random pure luck... </strong> Reduced ratings are fun and more difficult. I haven't done enough comparison with the development of minor leaguers to give a more informed answer than that. (I am the shortest tenured of the beta testers) <strong> --As always...how about the AI trading? Not only with offers towards human owners (will we need to make rules in regards to trading again) but also, do you notice teams in contention giving up prospects for a key veteran for the pennant stretch...do teams build around specific philosphies--some on speed...power...fielding...pitching? </strong> The trading AI is much improved, but remember in all computer games, eventually you will figure out the rules that the AI is governed by and find ways around it, while the AI is forced to conform to the same old rules. There are many more trades at the deadline... although I'm stuck at work, so that I can't report on just what kind of the trades the deadline deals were, but they seem a bit better. Teams don't seem to build by philosiphy; they attempt to shore up the teams weaknesses (as determined by the AI). <strong> --How about long-term player development? Have you seen many busts/surprises... </strong>Haven't tested this fully, see above answer. <strong> --Do all players fatigue at the same rate? I know that catchers fatigue faster, but will my 1B fatigue in the same way as other 1B in the league? Is it simply based on games started in a row? Does pinch hitting start for a game played in the fatigue equation? </strong>No different players fatigue at different rates, the rating is random, I'm not sure about everything in the equation, whether pinch hitting counts, but managers (in real life) tend to try and avoid sending their starters into the game if they are intentionally trying to rest the player. <strong> Not sure how many of these can be answered right now...but I was hoping to get a few more insights. Unfortunatly I have a coaches clinic all day Friday and Saturday in Toledo so I won't get my hands on the game till Sunday! Lots of work around the house is going to be ignored for the next few weekends! Kevin</strong><hr></blockquote> Hope these help at least a little bit, sorry I couldn't be more helpful.

02-27-2002, 05:26 AM	#5
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 17,022	If you will do a search of the topic "minor league stats" you will find a decent amount of discussion on the issue. The minor league games are simulated with the same engine that the regular games are just to give you that info. __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ *DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays Epicenter Baseball League - Astros 2014 The CBL Rewind - Phillies '95

02-27-2002, 05:54 AM	#8
Scott Vibert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: My Computer Posts: 8,182	[quote]Originally posted by Jason: <strong>So...how many ratings are actually hidden? </strong><hr></blockquote> You never see the actual ratings... just what your scout thinks and even good scouts make mistakes. So I guess that would mean they all are... (and there is even a mode where you you don't even get ratings to judge your players on, you must go by performance, so I guess then they are really hidden )

02-27-2002, 05:24 AM	#4
Jason H. Bat Boy Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 11	Thanks for the replies to the original poster. I, too, am watching this thread since it is similar to the post I just made on the 'Some help on new version please.' thread. The one question that was danced around was the relationship of minor league stats to a players abilities. In other words, how many ratings are actually 'hidden' or allow a player who looks 'normal' to be a big stud?? Are minor league stats random or based purely on visible ratings? Just curious...

02-27-2002, 05:36 AM	#6
kserra Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 91	Wow! You guys are awesome...thanks for the replies... This might be the most excited I've ever been about a game...plus, my favorite online league is starting back up! Oh happy days! Kevin XBL Detroit Tigers

02-27-2002, 05:48 AM	#7
Jason H. Bat Boy Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 11	So...how many ratings are actually hidden? You've already sold me on the game. Actually...you had me at 'if'...

02-27-2002, 05:56 AM	#9
Backintheday Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 92	Hey Kevin, good to see you around! I am not a betatester but here are my thoughts on minor league stats and being ready. I think some of this will change as we can manage the minor leagues but I do not think the game engine has changed in how games are processed. The minor leagues use the same engine as the majors. For holes in lineups, etc...the game uses "ghost" players who are average rated. The minor league teams goes against "I'm assuming" a team of average minor leaguers. Therefore, all stats generated is how your player would fare against average rated players for that level. (side note: it would be cool for future versions if your minor league team played the minor league teams from other teams..) That said, what I look at in stats for pitchers is k/bb ratio and hits/9innings. ERA, as in real life, isn't going to tell much in the minors. For the hitters, I look at how often they make contact and obp. As in real life, guys can tear it up in the minors and fail at the Big Show (see: Ruben Rivera and Ruben Mateo) Chris __________________ <a href="http://www.thexbl.com" target="_blank">XBL</a> Marlins <a href="http://www.geocities.com/cana321/baseball/bbdl.htm" target="_blank">BBDL</a> Rangers <a href="http://http://www.baseballmaelstrom.com/" target="_blank">Baseball Maelstrom</a> Rangers

02-27-2002, 06:16 AM	#10
kserra Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 91	Hey Chris! Yeah, someday, maybe version 5, it would be awesome if minor league teams played each other...and dare I say, even keep track of standings and stats... That would be some depth! The more I see this game developing, the more I keep dreaming it will become a Championship Manager type game for baseball...with the addition of hidden ratings and more player personality, OOTP is creating a richer, more detailed world to lose ourselves in... So Chris...wanna start talking trade for the XBL? Kevin XBL Detroit Tigers

02-27-2002, 06:40 AM	#11
ScottFalk Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 73	[quote]Originally posted by Backintheday: <strong>As in real life, guys can tear it up in the minors and fail at the Big Show (see: Ruben Rivera and Ruben Mateo) Chris</strong><hr></blockquote> Why is it that these guys always end up on the Reds? Uhg! __________________ Scott MLB1966-Philadelphia Phillies MBBL-Salt Lake City Missions PWBL-St Louis Cardinals

02-27-2002, 06:54 AM	#12
DarkLight Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: St Louis Posts: 64	On the flip side, George Brett never hit .300 in the minors.

02-27-2002, 07:10 AM	#13
kserra Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 91	so the Tigers "hot" prospects have a shot then I guess... With Inge hitting .100 in the last month, our CF of the future Torres and SS Infante both being slap hitters at best...maybe I can ignore their minor league stats too... Kevin

02-27-2002, 07:20 AM	#14
Backintheday Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 92	Kevin, Yeah, we need to! It's just good to talk ANYTHING XBL after the layoff. What I think will be interesting with the minors in version 4 is the injuries the players could suffer there. It's another step to the CM that we all dream of this franchise becoming. __________________ <a href="http://www.thexbl.com" target="_blank">XBL</a> Marlins <a href="http://www.geocities.com/cana321/baseball/bbdl.htm" target="_blank">BBDL</a> Rangers <a href="http://http://www.baseballmaelstrom.com/" target="_blank">Baseball Maelstrom</a> Rangers

02-27-2002, 07:22 AM	#15
perez24 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: various Posts: 191	[quote]Originally posted by Backintheday: <strong>Hey Kevin, good to see you around! As in real life, guys can tear it up in the minors and fail at the Big Show (see: Ruben Rivera and Ruben Mateo) Chris</strong><hr></blockquote> Actually, Mateo is my starting CF for the Reds and I can count on 2 things: 1. A really hot April 2. A torn ACL/concussion/earache knocking him out for the season sometime after he cools off in May. But he's fun while he lasts.