Statistics

Rosco Peabody · 05-04-2016, 01:19 PM

One thing I've been wondering is how you will do ratings for players.

Baseball is a lot simpler to do ratings for because it's such a stats-based game and a player's skill can be very accurately represented by their stats and their 'tools'. You can really tell most things about a hitter from power, contact, gap power, eye, speed, and splits.

Football is a whole other animal. I feel like each position has a completely different set of tools that are important. Speed is super important for a Wide Receiver, but not for an Offensive Lineman. Think of how many stats players have in Madden football games and I think that's still not enough.

Quarterbacks are often given Throwing power, and accuracy to short, medium, and deep. Offensive Linemen are given Run Blocking & Pass Blocking strength and footwork. I don't know if these things are enough to represent how good a player is.

Plus, TONS of what makes a player great is how well they fit into the offensive scheme.

I guess my two questions are: 1. how in-depth will ratings be represented and 2. will coach's scheme have a significant effect on a player's skill?

jwarner · 05-05-2016, 04:18 PM

I've wondered about this too. Considering the entire in-game engine rests on this, it's pretty important but difficult to get right.

So far the best I've seen is Football Manager's approach: Players have individual ratings grouped into the broader categories of Technical, Mental, and Physical. I think this gives a pretty good range of player types (the pure athlete without much skill, the slower receiver who runs perfect routes, the wily veteran who's lost some agility and can't juke as well but knows to hit the right hole at the right time) without being overwhelming.

Soccer is a much more fluid game, obviously, so it's necessary that every player has the same set of attributes (except goalkeepers of course), but football is more specialized so I could see there being more position-specific attribute categories. On the other hand, hybrid players are a pretty big thing in football right now (big tight ends who can run and catch, cornerback/safety tweeners, running QBs) so there's that.

Another thing too is that football is more influenced by coaching than probably any other sport, so it would be nice if coaches had attributes too. That's a whole other discussion though.

Michael Winter · 05-06-2016, 05:08 AM

The set of attributes is not final but it is very detailed. Every player will have a rating for all attributes. I can't really publish the document about attributes here, but we will certainly go way beyond what other games have. For example, offensive linemen won't simply have the usual two attributes (one for pass blocking and one for run blocking), because this is just a ridiculous simplification.

Rosco Peabody · 05-06-2016, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Winter

The set of attributes is not final but it is very detailed. Every player will have a rating for all attributes. I can't really publish the document about attributes here, but we will certainly go way beyond what other games have. For example, offensive linemen won't simply have the usual two attributes (one for pass blocking and one for run blocking), because this is just a ridiculous simplification.

Thanks so much for the response, Michael!! I'm so pumped to see this game. You guys do such a good job on OOTP, I'm sure that BTS will be incredible.

Katana22 · 05-06-2016, 08:23 AM

I'm glad to hear that offensive linemen will have more attributes than other games, I'm hoping that a rating for continuity will be in there somehow as this never seems to be addressed and is one the most important aspects of what offensive linemen have to do together as a group, also I hope that instead of just run blocking they would also extend that to Zone Blocking & Man/Power Blocking scheme (this should also be apart of RB's ratings as well) as this would also help in games overall feel.

Katana22 · 05-06-2016, 08:37 AM

I might as well say something about the Defensive side of ball as in regards to DL that being I hope that instead this players is a DT or a DE or RDE, LDT, NT and such that the positions would have more definition and flex to them as in the player can play 1tech, 3tech, 5tech and so forth because as we all know most DE's that play in 3-4 Defense would not be DE's in a 4-3 Defense same goes for OLB in a 3-4 some of them would play DE in 4-3 so I hope this game goes into this kind of detail as a strategy GM type game needs this sort of immersion to truly make it stand out from the pack and finally set a benchmark for other games to follow in this genre.

Rosco Peabody · 05-06-2016, 11:09 PM

Well, I assume that there would have to be some kind of rating and the player would fit that position in a certain way, having their overall rating change as a result, like what happens in OOTP. You have a player that is good as a starting pitcher, then you make them into a relief pitcher and they're great.

Tunnelrunner · 05-08-2016, 09:41 AM

Will we have the option to edit the ratings of each player if we choose? (Maybe a "Commissioner Mode" like OOTP?)

We always that option (unlimited editing of player ratings) in the old Front Page Sports Football series and of course, in OOTP 17.

EDIT: Sorry, forgot to quote who I was replying to. That question is for Michael.

Michael Winter · 05-09-2016, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tunnelrunner

Will we have the option to edit the ratings of each player if we choose? (Maybe a "Commissioner Mode" like OOTP?)

We always that option (unlimited editing of player ratings) in the old Front Page Sports Football series and of course, in OOTP 17.

EDIT: Sorry, forgot to quote who I was replying to. That question is for Michael.

Commissioner mode will be in the game for sure, so you will be able to edit just about anything related to players.

Michael Winter · 05-09-2016, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosco Peabody

Well, I assume that there would have to be some kind of rating and the player would fit that position in a certain way, having their overall rating change as a result, like what happens in OOTP. You have a player that is good as a starting pitcher, then you make them into a relief pitcher and they're great.

Ratings will dictate how well a player can perform at a certain position. Every player will also have a rating for each position. This rating describes to what degree a player has mastered the mental aspects of a position at the NFL level. So even if a player has all the physical tools to play a position, he may still need teaching in order to become good or great.

Michael Winter · 05-09-2016, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katana22

I might as well say something about the Defensive side of ball as in regards to DL that being I hope that instead this players is a DT or a DE or RDE, LDT, NT and such that the positions would have more definition and flex to them as in the player can play 1tech, 3tech, 5tech and so forth because as we all know most DE's that play in 3-4 Defense would not be DE's in a 4-3 Defense same goes for OLB in a 3-4 some of them would play DE in 4-3 so I hope this game goes into this kind of detail as a strategy GM type game needs this sort of immersion to truly make it stand out from the pack and finally set a benchmark for other games to follow in this genre.

This kind of stuff will be in the game. Depending on your system, you need to have the players that fit it well. If you are going to ask a somewhat undersized 4-3 DT to play NT in a 3-4, you will certainly see some painful results. Getting all of this right will be quite a challenge but it is definitely the plan that you need to pick your players and your system carefully. This should also give you the chance to look for players who are currently underperforming because their assigned role doesn't really fit their skill set.

battists · 05-11-2016, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Winter

This kind of stuff will be in the game. Depending on your system, you need to have the players that fit it well. If you are going to ask a somewhat undersized 4-3 DT to play NT in a 3-4, you will certainly see some painful results. Getting all of this right will be quite a challenge but it is definitely the plan that you need to pick your players and your system carefully. This should also give you the chance to look for players who are currently underperforming because their assigned role doesn't really fit their skill set.

VERY exciting! Certainly one of the huge shortcomings of football simulations like Madden is their insistence that every player has one and only one position. It sounds like your building in a great deal of flexibility, where the player skill set combines with experience to determine how well a player can play at a particular position.

I totally think this is the right approach!

Rosco Peabody · 05-19-2016, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Winter

Ratings will dictate how well a player can perform at a certain position. Every player will also have a rating for each position. This rating describes to what degree a player has mastered the mental aspects of a position at the NFL level. So even if a player has all the physical tools to play a position, he may still need teaching in order to become good or great.

Sounds a bit like how OOTP does position ratings. A player might have a high glove, arm, and range rating, but if they've never played a position before, they'll be a zero for a little while. Kind of like that?

jwarner · 05-23-2016, 09:41 AM

I would assume that some positions would be easier to switch between than others, right? There are a lot of CB/S, DE/LB, and TE/WR hybrids in the game these days, and of course a lot of offensive linemen can play both tackle and guard or guard and center (usually not all three though).

Michael Winter · 05-24-2016, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosco Peabody

Sounds a bit like how OOTP does position ratings. A player might have a high glove, arm, and range rating, but if they've never played a position before, they'll be a zero for a little while. Kind of like that?

Yes, sort of like that. If a player has all the physical tools but no knowledge about how to play a certain position, then there is a good chance that he doesn't react quickly or his decision making would be questionable at times.

Michael Winter · 05-24-2016, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwarner

I would assume that some positions would be easier to switch between than others, right? There are a lot of CB/S, DE/LB, and TE/WR hybrids in the game these days, and of course a lot of offensive linemen can play both tackle and guard or guard and center (usually not all three though).

That's true. I think will tackle this in such a way that a player also learns something about related positions if he is taught about a certain position. So if you learn how to play LT you will also be qualified to play all other OL positions to some degree.

baseballonly · 05-24-2016, 08:08 PM

Would it be possible to get a list of all ratings you currently have?

Michael Winter · 05-25-2016, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baseballonly

Would it be possible to get a list of all ratings you currently have?

I guess you would have to join the beta forum for this.

Katana22 · 05-25-2016, 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Winter

I guess you would have to join the beta forum for this.

There is a Beta forum? Where is it so i can join it if that's possible.

bradko · 05-25-2016, 07:31 AM

Me three. Count me in if you wish.

05-04-2016, 01:19 PM	#1
Rosco Peabody All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: South of Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 1,092	Statistics One thing I've been wondering is how you will do ratings for players. Baseball is a lot simpler to do ratings for because it's such a stats-based game and a player's skill can be very accurately represented by their stats and their 'tools'. You can really tell most things about a hitter from power, contact, gap power, eye, speed, and splits. Football is a whole other animal. I feel like each position has a completely different set of tools that are important. Speed is super important for a Wide Receiver, but not for an Offensive Lineman. Think of how many stats players have in Madden football games and I think that's still not enough. Quarterbacks are often given Throwing power, and accuracy to short, medium, and deep. Offensive Linemen are given Run Blocking & Pass Blocking strength and footwork. I don't know if these things are enough to represent how good a player is. Plus, TONS of what makes a player great is how well they fit into the offensive scheme. I guess my two questions are: 1. how in-depth will ratings be represented and 2. will coach's scheme have a significant effect on a player's skill?

05-08-2016, 09:41 AM	#8
Tunnelrunner Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 64	Will we have the option to edit the ratings of each player if we choose? (Maybe a "Commissioner Mode" like OOTP?) We always that option (unlimited editing of player ratings) in the old Front Page Sports Football series and of course, in OOTP 17. EDIT: Sorry, forgot to quote who I was replying to. That question is for Michael. Last edited by Tunnelrunner; 05-08-2016 at 09:43 AM.

05-24-2016, 08:08 PM	#17
baseballonly All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 806	Would it be possible to get a list of all ratings you currently have? __________________ Former OOTP Leagues: CBL-Admirals (2016-17 Champs) MMB-Phillies

05-25-2016, 07:31 AM	#20
bradko Minors (Single A) Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 57 Infractions: 1/0 (0)	Me three. Count me in if you wish. Last edited by bradko; 05-25-2016 at 06:24 PM.

05-05-2016, 04:18 PM	#2
jwarner Bat Boy Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Posts: 8	I've wondered about this too. Considering the entire in-game engine rests on this, it's pretty important but difficult to get right. So far the best I've seen is Football Manager's approach: Players have individual ratings grouped into the broader categories of Technical, Mental, and Physical. I think this gives a pretty good range of player types (the pure athlete without much skill, the slower receiver who runs perfect routes, the wily veteran who's lost some agility and can't juke as well but knows to hit the right hole at the right time) without being overwhelming. Soccer is a much more fluid game, obviously, so it's necessary that every player has the same set of attributes (except goalkeepers of course), but football is more specialized so I could see there being more position-specific attribute categories. On the other hand, hybrid players are a pretty big thing in football right now (big tight ends who can run and catch, cornerback/safety tweeners, running QBs) so there's that. Another thing too is that football is more influenced by coaching than probably any other sport, so it would be nice if coaches had attributes too. That's a whole other discussion though.

05-06-2016, 05:08 AM	#3
Michael Winter Minors (Single A) Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Berlin Posts: 87	The set of attributes is not final but it is very detailed. Every player will have a rating for all attributes. I can't really publish the document about attributes here, but we will certainly go way beyond what other games have. For example, offensive linemen won't simply have the usual two attributes (one for pass blocking and one for run blocking), because this is just a ridiculous simplification.

05-06-2016, 08:23 AM	#5
Katana22 Bat Boy Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 3	I'm glad to hear that offensive linemen will have more attributes than other games, I'm hoping that a rating for continuity will be in there somehow as this never seems to be addressed and is one the most important aspects of what offensive linemen have to do together as a group, also I hope that instead of just run blocking they would also extend that to Zone Blocking & Man/Power Blocking scheme (this should also be apart of RB's ratings as well) as this would also help in games overall feel.

05-06-2016, 08:37 AM	#6
Katana22 Bat Boy Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 3	I might as well say something about the Defensive side of ball as in regards to DL that being I hope that instead this players is a DT or a DE or RDE, LDT, NT and such that the positions would have more definition and flex to them as in the player can play 1tech, 3tech, 5tech and so forth because as we all know most DE's that play in 3-4 Defense would not be DE's in a 4-3 Defense same goes for OLB in a 3-4 some of them would play DE in 4-3 so I hope this game goes into this kind of detail as a strategy GM type game needs this sort of immersion to truly make it stand out from the pack and finally set a benchmark for other games to follow in this genre.

05-06-2016, 11:09 PM	#7
Rosco Peabody All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: South of Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 1,092	Well, I assume that there would have to be some kind of rating and the player would fit that position in a certain way, having their overall rating change as a result, like what happens in OOTP. You have a player that is good as a starting pitcher, then you make them into a relief pitcher and they're great.

05-23-2016, 09:41 AM	#14
jwarner Bat Boy Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: St. Petersburg, FL Posts: 8	I would assume that some positions would be easier to switch between than others, right? There are a lot of CB/S, DE/LB, and TE/WR hybrids in the game these days, and of course a lot of offensive linemen can play both tackle and guard or guard and center (usually not all three though).