*** Latest OOTP 6.5b BETA released ***

[jbmagic]

real mlb players are still in league record books and real mlb managers are in team setup when you create a standard league.


and wrong fictional ballparks are assign to the wrong team when you create a standard league.

[f.montoya]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

real mlb players are still in league record books and real mlb managers are in team setup when you create a standard league.


and wrong fictional ballparks are assign to the wrong team when you create a standard league.

Confirmed. Baltimore plays it's home games at "California Park", Atlanta's stadium is "Phoenix Metro Park".

Not that having Bobb Cox as my fictional league's Atlanta manager bothers me, but he's right. Real MLB managers are default.

[endgame]

Little things. I think I posted this in the WishList forum at one time. If it's happened previously, I don't recall; just remember wanting this at one time and now I see it's actually implemented in this patch, perhaps more visibly or certainly. Don't know which.

When you claim a player and his team removes him, you DO get an email indicating that they have done so. This was either absent or erratic in either this or a previous version. For those who might want to know.

[endgame]

Does this appear to be the only substantial remaining question?

Originally Posted by BruceM

Markus is there any chance you can kill either the ltrans or lalltrans files and put everything into one file like previous versions? Right now neither file contains all transactions, and until that happens CATO will not capture a true image of the leagues transaction history.

See the following quote by Sandman for more details:

Quote:
Also there are some issues with 6.5b and catobase that I refuse to use the program with at this point. The ltransall file, which you need to rename to ltrans txt to get all the transactions really does not have all the waiver transactions. Players are appearing on one team when they actually played on two. If you do not rename the ltransall then you miss other transactions so it is a mess. I went back to 6.5a but then decided that it is better to use 6.5b but to not use the catobase....... bummer!! I export the stats so that I can get the splits but now I just put the exporter data into access and create my own queries....

BTW, someone emailed me and stated that all the transactions that are in the ltrans file are also in the ltransall file, with the only difference being the ltransall had every transaction in it. I have taken the files line by line in two leagues and have found items not in the ltransall. Anyone that wants to test this for themselves will probably find the same thing. Compare the ltrans to the ltransall. If all the records from the ltrans file are in the file then you can use the ltransall to process all the transactions in CATOBASE.....other wise you need to combine the two files by date, which is a nightmare to do, very time consuming......

Adding this additional SandMan supporting quote from 10/20:

Originally Posted by SandMan

New Problem with 6.5b and Catobase....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

with 6.5a you could use the lalltrans.txt file and rename it to ltrans.txt and it would process nicely. This was required because not all transactions needed for catobase were in the ltrans. Well now there is a new issue. The trades are no longer in the lalltrans.txt file so renaming this file to ltrans will give you the transactions but not the trades..... It seems like with every fix there is a new problem. Liked it better when all the transactions were in the ltrans.txt file......... Also using the ltrans file by itself does not get you all the waiver transactions so when you run cato you may have players listed on 2 or more teams but the stats are accumulative not separated... this does not happen with every transaction. It appears to happen to players placed on waivers and picked up by another team.

[ChiefIlliniwek]

Originally Posted by LeiterFanatic

Thanks for the update. Nothing about the save totals and closer usage that has been discussed a few times on here? People have to monkey with starter endurance levels and move set-up men to closer and vice versa to get realistic save totals.

I'm also concerned with the closer issue. I don't see any mention of it, but would really like to see this fixed with the final version.

[f.montoya]

So far, with multiple tests of different sorts of leagues with different sizes, run for multiple seasons, it appears as though the issues with the ltrans file have been completely resolved.

Catobase, which previously gave me headaches and multiple errors, now runs smoothly and without glitch. This does not mean that another issue is not out there that could poke it's ugly head to the surface, but it does mean that I've gained enough confidence in 6.5b and Catobase to start using them together in earnest for my enjoyment.

For those who have been afraid to try out this great tool, either because they didn't know how or were spooked by all of the ranting here about errors and other problems associated with it(and 6.5b), now's your chance.

For the full Catobase tutorial, in Layman's terms, that Battists and I have compiled: http://www.allsimbaseball.com/battmontcato/

[endgame]

Originally Posted by CubsFanCuddy

I'm also concerned with the closer issue. I don't see any mention of it, but would really like to see this fixed with the final version.

This has been discussed several times and I don't believe a consensus exists that agrees this is a problem across the board, but rather a situation that is more unique to some individuals than others. Also, it can be affected by era settings, pitcher endurance settings within that era, and how often you've elected to use relievers. Personally, I've never had a real problem with this issue. My leagues typically model approximate 2003-2004 results and my saves comes in a tad low, but with almost exclusively closers occupying the top spots. Again, as I've said in many a previous post this is not to diminish or discount your concern in any way. I'm certain, for whatever reasons play into it, you do have a difficulty in that area. But here are my current results through 08/10 in the top 15 spots in a combined 32 team league. All but Moore are closers.

[SandMan]

Originally Posted by f.montoya

So far, with multiple tests of different sorts of leagues with different sizes, run for multiple seasons, it appears as though the issues with the ltrans file have been completely resolved.

Catobase, which previously gave me headaches and multiple errors, now runs smoothly and without glitch. This does not mean that another issue is not out there that could poke it's ugly head to the surface, but it does mean that I've gained enough confidence in 6.5b and Catobase to start using them together in earnest for my enjoyment.

For those who have been afraid to try out this great tool, either because they didn't know how or were spooked by all of the ranting here about errors and other problems associated with it(and 6.5b), now's your chance.

For the full Catobase tutorial, in Layman's terms, that Battists and I have compiled: http://www.allsimbaseball.com/battmontcato/

2 minor things to do first though:

1. Use the lalltrans.txt instead of the ltrans.txt, save the ltrans.txt and rename the lalltrans.txt to ltrans.txt.

2. You still must put in the blank line between trade transactions, not required for the other transactions.



I also found a small problem but it only occurs once in a while. I have found in 3 occassions in 24 simmed leagues that on a team that is Human controlled a player placed on waivers did not show up in the lalltrans.txt that but was in the ltrans.txt. This messed up catobase because the player then showed up only on the 2nd team within catobase and with only partial stats. Funny thing was that none of these transactions involved the computer team, just the human controlled team. If you find these it is simple to fix, just add a record in the trades table in catobase and the next time you run the program run it for all years - rebuilding all the team pages.......

Also if you make an error and don't leave a blank line between the trades in you ltrans.txt file, simply go into the trades table and look at all the trades that have a large tradeid number. You can delete the bad records and then rerun the create html with all years selected for team pages....

I have not used LA catofix program but I hear that it will put the blank line between the trade transactions. Personally I just edit the ltrans doing a search on trades because there are usually only 10 or so in the file and this is simple to do manually using the find...

In summary, I now feel comfortable going back and using the CATOBASE with the new OOTP6.5b2 patch. Just do the two steps and you won't have any issues.

[f.montoya]

Thanks Sandman. In my tests, being exclusively A.I. run leagues for the sake of tests, I didn't find those instances.

Being that almost everyone controls at least one team in their leagues, Sandmans findings, unless Markus corrects this before the final release of the patch, are extremely valuable.

The Tutorial will reflect "Sandman's edit-fix" soon.

Still, with the patch, Sandman's fix and the easy tutorial, the program has become much more user-freindly.

[f.montoya]

Sandman, with you being the senior Cato enthusiast around here, could I ask you to check the Tutorial for accuracy. Battists and I put it together, mostly from all that we've learned from you and others on the boards. We've made great strides this week with the new beta patch and your analysis so I think many can benefit from a "completed" draft(of course it can be revised!) of a Catobase instruction guide.

[SandMan]

Originally Posted by f.montoya

Sandman, with you being the senior Cato enthusiast around here, could I ask you to check the Tutorial for accuracy. Battists and I put it together, mostly from all that we've learned from you and others on the boards. We've made great strides this week with the new beta patch and your analysis so I think many can benefit from a "completed" draft(of course it can be revised!) of a Catobase instruction guide.

Will do...

[tcblcommish]

I was really looking forward to the full use of the CATO BASE once again and now that these will be worked around I can finally start my sim league!!

If I just use CPU controlled teams, do I still need to use the ltrans file or alltrans file?


Thanks

[SandMan]

Originally Posted by tcblcommish

I was really looking forward to the full use of the CATO BASE once again and now that these will be worked around I can finally start my sim league!!

If I just use CPU controlled teams, do I still need to use the ltrans file or alltrans file?


Thanks

I have not found any issues with any of the CPU controlled teams and very few instances with the error happening. Just once in a while a player is not put into the ltrans.txt file.

I would also still use the lalltrans.txt file because of this potential error. But again sometimes there are records in the ltrans.txt and not in the lalltrans.txt file - again this does not happen often. It does no harm using the lalltrans.txt because only the records with Waiver, Claimed, Released or Traded in them are processed by catobase....

[f.montoya]

Sandman's recommendation has been adopted as part of the Catobase Tutorial, even though 100% of my tests(with completely A.I. run leagues) had no errors, issues and nothing missing.

Again, unless Markus addresses this with the final patch, I strongly advise you take Sandman's route.

[SandMan]

Originally Posted by f.montoya

Sandman's recommendation has been adopted as part of the Catobase Tutorial, even though 100% of my tests(with completely A.I. run leagues) had no errors, issues and nothing missing.

Again, unless Markus addresses this with the final patch, I strongly advise you take Sandman's route.

Fidel, as a test - do it in a new catobase file. Edit a ltrans.txt file and put in a bunch of trades with 10 or more transactions after it for this date. Do this with no blank line between the trade transactions. You will find that the trades will show up in the trades table in access with more than the records of the trade, some of the other records will be in the trade as part of the trade...... I just had this happen to me today in and I had to rerun after fixing the trades table....

I have also thought that I had nothing missing when I took short cuts only to find that some obscure player did not show up on his first team, but only the second or that the team pages show 158 decisions with the pitchers because of the waiver bug in previous version. Some players not put on waivers, but claimed by a second team - stats come up missing because the program does not then go to the pitching_game csv to break down by team stats....

[f.montoya]

Originally Posted by SandMan

Fidel, as a test - do it in a new catobase file. Edit a ltrans.txt file and put in a bunch of trades with 10 or more transactions after it for this date. Do this with no blank line between the trade transactions. You will find that the trades will show up in the trades table in access with more than the records of the trade, some of the other records will be in the trade as part of the trade...... I just had this happen to me today in and I had to rerun after fixing the trades table....

I have also thought that I had nothing missing when I took short cuts only to find that some obscure player did not show up on his first team, but only the second or that the team pages show 158 decisions with the pitchers because of the waiver bug in previous version. Some players not put on waivers, but claimed by a second team - stats come up missing because the program does not then go to the pitching_game csv to break down by team stats....

Just curious, but did you find these with "clean" leagues? I mean leagues that weren't partially run with the previous patch?

My tests were with leagues between 8-12 teams, total, so that it wouldn't take me long to scour the results. Again, no human teams. All the tests were clean runs that would have had no influence by the previous patch(es).

Again, just curious. I don't use "Access"(it's on my computer but I've never played with it)so I don't really understand the impact of it showing up in "Access" a certain way. Is it showing up in Cato incorrectly?

If I edit the ltrans with five or six trades with no blank line between them, will Catobase show them as part of the same transaction?

[f.montoya]

Found it. You're were right. A lot of trades show up as one trade.

The transactions missing has become the non-issue. The transactions getting combined is the new issue.

Still your fix should take care of this. I'll run some tests this weekend with it. Confidence still high.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by endgame

This has been discussed several times and I don't believe a consensus exists that agrees this is a problem across the board, but rather a situation that is more unique to some individuals than others. Also, it can be affected by era settings, pitcher endurance settings within that era, and how often you've elected to use relievers. Personally, I've never had a real problem with this issue. My leagues typically model approximate 2003-2004 results and my saves comes in a tad low, but with almost exclusively closers occupying the top spots. Again, as I've said in many a previous post this is not to diminish or discount your concern in any way. I'm certain, for whatever reasons play into it, you do have a difficulty in that area. But here are my current results through 08/10 in the top 15 spots in a combined 32 team league. All but Moore are closers.

Endgame, your experience matches mine for the most part. I do notice however that in my league the closer use in the AL is less than the NL. Do you see this? If I get time over the Christmas break I'll go through my 20+ seasons on 6.5b and publish some results.

I do agree with Aordolin though. If you pick a closer and put him in that slot the AI should not be able to override it. A separate but equally important issue IMO.

[SandMan]

Originally Posted by f.montoya

Found it. You're were right. A lot of trades show up as one trade.

The transactions missing has become the non-issue. The transactions getting combined is the new issue.

Still your fix should take care of this. I'll run some tests this weekend with it. Confidence still high.

I went a while without catobase because of issues. I am now using it again and also have confidence that with minor tweaking everything works fine with the newest version of OOTP and the catobase program. Now if Markus would have only put the blank line after the transactions (trades) we would not even have to mess with this.......

There is only one small issue. The waiver issue. This could be fixed if Markus had only one transaction file instead of the two..... but people were complaining that there were too many transactions to view in the one file...

Still, this is the best that CATOBASE has run since version 6.12 so we are almost there. Also I wish the new verison of the game will have an export option to Commish Joes CSV formats built in to the game. This would allow for the usage of catobase with the new version. Just need the interface (output). Of course the output would be standard catobase but this would be an option until the new catobase or other utilities are written....Plus it gives user the ability to keep their league output the same regardless of the game version......

[Gil Thorp]

Originally Posted by SandMan

but people were complaining that there were too many transactions to view in the one file...

21c's utilities solved that problem nicely.