Injuries make this game unplayable - Page 5

redmarkYankees · 06-14-2006, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thbroman

Would you care to share this? I was intending to do something similar, but it sounds like you could save me a lot of effort!

I will, but I intend to rework it quite a bit later today. As often with a work in progress, by the time I finished with formulae, parameters, modifiers and bits of vba code, it's not as tidy and easy to use as it should be, and there are too many small tweaks in the code.

thbroman · 06-14-2006, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redmarkYankees

I will, but I intend to rework it quite a bit later today. As often with a work in progress, by the time I finished with formulae, parameters, modifiers and bits of vba code, it's not as tidy and easy to use as it should be, and there are too many small tweaks in the code.

I understand. If I could lend a hand in any way, I would be happy to do so. I know my way around excel pretty decently

Pirate Fan · 06-14-2006, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

I can think of more, but they didn't come on the baseball field (Lyman Bostock. Harry Agganis, Thurman Munson, Gus Polidor, Tim Crews, Steve Olin, and so on).

Has anyone mentioned Roy Campanella?

Or back to on field career enders Mark "the bird" Fydrich. For those of you too young to remember, Fydrich won something like 19 games as a Tiger rookie and was one of the most exciting and eccentirc young players to come along in awhile. His eccentricities included talking to the ball before delivering a pitch. He developed arm trouble the next year and was never effective again; he was soon out of baseball.

My first experience with OOTB was to do a quick start and while examining the rooster of the team I chose to manage I learned that my best catcher was out 33 months. I had not played even a single day of spring training - seems a bit much.

passionscreek · 06-14-2006, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveM0

I agree, I dont mind the frequency of the injuries it is the severity of them. Pinched nerve injury causes a guy to miss 7 months? And maybe I just have REALLY REALLY bad luck but every season so far my best player has been taken out by a season ending injury. My star pitcher had an injury last 12 months. The year before my star Catcher was out 14 months in spring training.

Did you check on your players info page.. Some of the guys have their injury rating set to frequent. Guys like giambi, Bonds, etc... The less durable players have a higher risk of injury based on the ratings. Maybe you want to check it out.. Just a thought

swampdragon · 06-14-2006, 01:43 PM

I just restarted my 1871 league. For grins, I've gone back and logged injuries for the last 30 days (16 team league).

22 DTD injuries
20 out for 1 to 4 weeks
7 out 6 weeks to 3 months
6 season ending injuries
0 career ending injuries

So over the course of a 6 month season, the average team will have 8-9 day to day injuries, 8 minor injuries, and about 5 major injuries, half of which will be season ending.

That doesn't seem horribly out of line with real life. It may need a little severity tweaking. but not much.

thbroman · 06-14-2006, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swampdragon

I just restarted my 1871 league. For grins, I've gone back and logged injuries for the last 30 days (16 team league).

22 DTD injuries
20 out for 1 to 4 weeks
7 out 6 weeks to 3 months
6 season ending injuries
0 career ending injuries

So over the course of a 6 month season, the average team will have 8-9 day to day injuries, 8 minor injuries, and about 5 major injuries, half of which will be season ending.

That doesn't seem horribly out of line with real life. It may need a little severity tweaking. but not much.

Not bad, really. That's encouraging.

Claybor · 06-14-2006, 02:24 PM

Quote:

If that's true, quantify it. Give me proof. Otherwise you're just talking out your butt

I cant find the main article I had hoped to post here, but I will keep looking. Here though is an article in which the say injuries are up considerably in just the last 11 years!

http://ajs.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/29/4/431

Disability Days in Major League Baseball
Stan Conte, PT, ATC*, Ralph K. Requa, MSPH{dagger} and James G. Garrick, MD{dagger},{ddagger}

* San Francisco Giants, San Francisco, California
{dagger} Centers for Sports Medicine, San Francisco, California

{ddagger} Address correspondence and reprint requests to James G. Garrick, MD, Centers for Sports Medicine, Saint Francis Memorial Hospital, 900 Hyde Street, San Francisco, CA 94109

We have examined the injury experience in Major League Baseball as reflected by the disabled list, based on data presented by American Specialty Companies in their publications, to examine any changes in injury rates over the past 11 years. It is reasonable to expect that improvements in training and conditioning, diagnostic methods, and surgical treatment over the last 11 years would have reduced injuries and resulted in fewer players on the disabled list. Yet, such does not appear to be the case. There is no evidence that the number of injuries in Major League Baseball has declined over the last decade; on the contrary, it appears that both the number of players and player days on the disabled list have increased. Team membership, injury location, and position do not appear to be related to the increase. Nor does it appear that the increase in injuries is a result of more sensitive diagnostic tests allowing the diagnoses of previously unrecognized injuries. Whatever the reason, it is significant that publicly available data, when viewed over an 11-year period, reveal a gradual and consistent increase in reported injuries—suggesting a problem that deserves attention.

CBL-Commish · 06-14-2006, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claybor

I cant find the main article I had hoped to post here, but I will keep looking. Here though is an article in which the say injuries are up considerably in just the last 11 years!

http://ajs.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/29/4/431

Disability Days in Major League Baseball
Stan Conte, PT, ATC*, Ralph K. Requa, MSPH{dagger} and James G. Garrick, MD{dagger},{ddagger}

* San Francisco Giants, San Francisco, California
{dagger} Centers for Sports Medicine, San Francisco, California

{ddagger} Address correspondence and reprint requests to James G. Garrick, MD, Centers for Sports Medicine, Saint Francis Memorial Hospital, 900 Hyde Street, San Francisco, CA 94109

We have examined the injury experience in Major League Baseball as reflected by the disabled list, based on data presented by American Specialty Companies in their publications, to examine any changes in injury rates over the past 11 years. It is reasonable to expect that improvements in training and conditioning, diagnostic methods, and surgical treatment over the last 11 years would have reduced injuries and resulted in fewer players on the disabled list. Yet, such does not appear to be the case. There is no evidence that the number of injuries in Major League Baseball has declined over the last decade; on the contrary, it appears that both the number of players and player days on the disabled list have increased. Team membership, injury location, and position do not appear to be related to the increase. Nor does it appear that the increase in injuries is a result of more sensitive diagnostic tests allowing the diagnoses of previously unrecognized injuries. Whatever the reason, it is significant that publicly available data, when viewed over an 11-year period, reveal a gradual and consistent increase in reported injuries—suggesting a problem that deserves attention.

Stan Conte - isn't he the BALCO guy? Maybe he is a big part of the reason for the results of this study.

So does this mean that the glorious, wonderful past when all players were tough as nails was... 1990?

Stu · 06-14-2006, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBL-Commish

Stan Conte - isn't he the BALCO guy? Maybe he is a big part of the reason for the results of this study.

So does this mean that the glorious, wonderful past when all players were tough as nails was... 1990?

I believe he's the Giants trainer. Victor Conte is the BALCO guy.

CBL-Commish · 06-14-2006, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu

I believe he's the Giants trainer. Victor Conte is the BALCO guy.

Ahhh... thanks. Just found a link where Stan says he's in no way related to Victor. Never met him, never wants to.

Claybor · 06-14-2006, 04:29 PM

Quote:

So does this mean that the glorious, wonderful past when all players were tough as nails was... 1990

Simply proves and earlier point I was called out on.

I am not saying players injuries today arent valid, I am sure they are, I just think there are a lot of minor injuries that could be played through. I am also not saying players of the past were all ironmen because they were'nt. I was just saying that it was a fact that injuries have been on the rise in modern day baseball by a fairly large degree. If that number shows that significantly in just 11 years, can you imagine how drastic the increase would be from 20-30-40 years ago? I was not trying to argue or fight with anyone, I was just pointing out a fact that anyone who has been into baseball for a long length of time could be aware of. As far as injuries in ootp go, I like to use them, but I dont want them to be the deciding factor in winning or losing. When I win a WS I want to win it against the best the other team has to offer, and if 2 of their best 3 players are out with injuries it's not as satisifying.

OOTP does a fine job with injuries though as they are scaleable to each players liking, and thats all that matters here. The fact that the actual injuries can be modified is a great addition. It looks to me like this version, while still a work in progress, has the potential to an extremely good game in the future.

blackrussian · 06-14-2006, 05:53 PM

here something i ran across from bill james "the baseball book 1990." he address the topic of why there seem to be a lot more injuries today, modern ball, than prior years. i just broke my arm, so im typing with 1 hand and it sucks, so here's the gist:

James says is that there arent necessarily more injuries in modern baseball for whatever reasons people cite (players arent as tough, training, turf, etc), but peoples perceptions and memories are distorted when comparing; "selective memory" he calls it.

he gives some examples from further back in history such as the 49 yankees who suffered no less than 71 injuries, many of them severe: dimaggio 1/2 season, tommy henrich - fractured vertabrae, mize - 1 month dislocated shoulder, keller- rest of season w/back problems, berra - 2-3 wks w/broken finger, bob porterfield - lost for season with torn muscle, etc.

he provides some other team examples as well as mentioning some stars like ted williams and the litany of injuries, minor and major, they suffered throughout the career.

i pretty much agree with that. im my own limited experience w/the game ive seen a decent handling of injuries over the course of a season or more. i think i agree though, that the number of CEI's seems to be a bit high in relation to the overall number of injuries. if that frequency could be adjusted without altering the rest of the injuries, that would be helpful.

i think the other factor is more personal taste, what one's perception/expectation of what the injury model should be like.

Fibonacci · 06-15-2006, 05:46 PM

I just finished the 1903 season with 4 career ending injuries out of a total of 404 players, with the injury setting on low!

Somehow, I don't think that even with on an average injury setting, 1% of the players should suffer a career ending injury.

Raidergoo · 06-15-2006, 06:25 PM

I am pretty sure that there are two CEI in this data from CBS. Perhaps more.

Considering we're not 40% into the season and the current body count is at least 2 of 800, that's not bad.

Code:

Arizona Diamondbacks
Updated Player Pos Injury Status Expected Return
06/07/2006 Juan Cruz RP Shoulder DL 15-day DL. Out until at least late June
06/06/2006 Terry Mulholland RP Ear DL 15-day DL. Out until at least late June

Atlanta Braves
Updated Player Pos Injury Status Expected Return
06/14/2006 Ryan Langerhans LF Hip Questionable Questionable for June 15 at Florida
06/14/2006 Chris Reitsma RP Hand DL 15-day DL. Out until at least late June
06/14/2006 John Thomson SP Blister Questionable Questionable for June 20 start vs. Toronto
06/11/2006 Horacio Ramirez SP Head Questionable Questionable for June 16 start vs. Boston
06/08/2006 John Foster RP Elbow DL 60-day DL. Out for the season
06/05/2006 Mike Hampton SP Elbow DL 60-day DL. Out for the season
06/03/2006 Kelly Johnson LF Elbow DL 60-day DL. Out for the season
05/21/2006 Kyle Davies SP Groin DL 60-day DL. Out until at least mid-July

Baltimore Orioles
Updated Player Pos Injury Status Expected Return
06/14/2006 Jay Gibbons RF Knee DL 15-day DL. Out until at least last June
06/13/2006 Chris Gomez 1B Hand DL 60-day DL. Out until at least mid-July
06/11/2006 David Newhan LF Leg DL 60-day DL. Out until at least mid-July
06/05/2006 John Parrish RP Elbow DL 15-day DL. Out until at least mid-July
06/05/2006 Hayden Penn SP Appendicitis DL 15-day DL. Out until at least late June
05/15/2006 Tim Byrdak RP Elbow DL 60-day DL. Out for the season
03/29/2006 Aaron J. Rakers RP Shoulder DL 60-day DL. Out for the season

Boston Red Sox
Updated Player Pos Injury Status Expected Return
06/15/2006 Matt Clement SP Biceps, shoulder Out Status uncertain. Will be re-evaluated June 15
06/14/2006 Tim Wakefield SP Back Probable Probable for June 15 start at Minnesota
06/13/2006 Keith Foulke RP Elbow DL 15-day DL. Out until at least mid-July
06/12/2006 Lenny DiNardo SP Neck DL 15-day DL. Out until at least July
06/12/2006 Mike Holtz RP Elbow DL 15-day DL. On Triple-A rehab assignment
06/07/2006 David Wells SP Knee DL 15-day DL. Out until at least late June
06/01/2006 Wily Mo Pena CF Wrist DL 15-day DL. Out until at least mid-July

Chicago Cubs
Updated Player Pos Injury Status Expected Return
06/14/2006 Mark Prior SP Shoulder DL 60-day DL. On Triple-A rehab assignment. Out until at least late June
06/12/2006 Scott Williamson RP Elbow DL 15-day DL. Out until at least late June
06/09/2006 Kerry Wood SP Shoulder DL 15-day DL. Out until at least late June
06/05/2006 Michael Barrett C Suspension Suspend Playing amid an appeal of 10-game suspension
06/05/2006 Derrek Lee 1B Wrist DL 15-day DL. Out until at least late June
06/05/2006 Wade Miller SP Shoulder DL 60-day DL. Out until at least mid-July
06/05/2006 Angel Pagan OF Hamstring DL 15-day DL. Out until at least July

Chicago White Sox
Updated Player Pos Injury Status Expected Return
06/14/2006 Dustin Hermanson RP Back, side DL 15-day DL. Might be out for the season
06/10/2006 Jeff Nelson RP Elbow DL 15-day DL. Out for the season
06/07/2006 Cliff Politte RP Shoulder DL 15-day DL. Out until at least late June

Cincinnati Reds
Updated Player Pos Injury Status Expected Return
06/14/2006 Matt Belisle RP Back DL 15-day DL. Expected to begin Class A rehab assignment June 15
06/13/2006 David Weathers RP Shoulder Questionable Questionable for June 16-18 series vs. Chicago White Sox
06/10/2006 Edwin Encarnacion 3B Ankle DL 15-day DL. Out until at least late June
06/05/2006 Grant Balfour RP Elbow, shoulder DL 60-day DL. Out until at least mid-July
06/05/2006 Paul Wilson SP Shoulder DL 15-day DL. Out until at least mid-July

Cleveland Indians
Updated Player Pos Injury Status Expected Return
06/15/2006 Casey Blake RF Abdominal DL 15-day DL. Out until at least late June
05/20/2006 Matt J. Miller RP Elbow DL 60-day DL. Out for the season

Colorado Rockies
Updated Player Pos Injury Status Expected Return
06/14/2006 Jose Mesa RP Suspension Suspend Out until June 17 at St. Louis
06/11/2006 Danny Ardoin C Knee DL 15-day DL. Out until at least late June
06/11/2006 Mike DeJean RP Shoulder DL 15-day DL. Out for the season
06/05/2006 Chin-Hui Tsao RP Elbow DL 60-day DL. Out until at least mid-July

Detroit Tigers
Updated Player Pos Injury Status Expected Return
06/10/2006 Dmitri Young DH Quadriceps DL 15-day DL. Out until at least late June
06/06/2006 Mike Maroth SP Elbow DL 60-day DL. Out until at least mid-August
05/26/2006 Craig Dingman RP Shoulder DL 60-day DL. Out until at least July
05/01/2006 Troy Percival RP Elbow DL 60-day DL. Out for the season

Florida Marlins
Updated Player Pos Injury Status Expected Return
06/14/2006 Mike Jacobs 1B Ankle Doubtful Doubtful for June 15 vs. Atlanta
06/14/2006 Josh Willingham LF Hand DL 15-day DL. Out until late June
05/27/2006 Sergio Mitre SP Shoulder DL 60-day DL. Out until at least August

Houston Astros
Updated Player Pos Injury Status Expected Return
06/14/2006 Morgan Ensberg 3B Shoulder Questionable Questionable for June 15 at Chicago Cubs
06/07/2006 Brandon Backe SP Elbow DL 60-day DL. Out until at least mid-July
06/02/2006 Jeff Bagwell 1B Shoulder DL 60-day DL. Out for the season

Kansas City Royals
Updated Player Pos Injury Status Expected Return
06/05/2006 Chris Booker P Groin DL 15-day DL. Out until at least late June
06/05/2006 Mike M. MacDougal RP Arm DL 60-day DL. Out until at least mid-July
06/05/2006 Bobby Madritsch SP Shoulder DL 60-day DL. Out until at least mid-July
06/05/2006 Mike Sweeney DH Back DL 15-day DL. Out until at least late June
06/04/2006 Zack Greinke SP Psychological DL 60-day DL. On Double-A rehab assignment
05/05/2006 Steve Stemle RP Elbow DL 60-day DL. Out for the season

Los Angeles Angels
Updated Player Pos Injury Status Expected Return
06/14/2006 Bartolo Colon SP Shoulder DL 15-day DL. Expected to return for June 18 start vs. San Diego
06/11/2006 Casey Kotchman 1B Virus DL 15-day DL. Out until at least mid-July

Los Angeles Dodgers
Updated Player Pos Injury Status Expected Return
06/15/2006 Cesar Izturis SS Elbow DL 60-day DL. On Triple-A rehab assignment. Questionable for June 20 vs. Seattle
06/14/2006 Eric Gagne RP Elbow DL 15-day DL. Out until at least late June
06/14/2006 Jason Repko CF Ankle DL 60-day DL. Out until at least late June
06/11/2006 Bill Mueller 3B Knee DL 15-day DL. Out until at least late July
06/11/2006 Dioner Navarro C Wrist DL 15-day DL. On Triple-A rehab assignment
06/05/2006 Ricky Ledee LF Groin DL 15-day DL. Out until at least July
06/05/2006 Jayson Werth LF Wrist DL 60-day DL. Out until at least mid-July
05/06/2006 Yhency Brazoban RP Elbow DL 60-day DL. Out for the season

Milwaukee Brewers
Updated Player Pos Injury Status Expected Return
06/13/2006 Rick Helling RP Elbow DL 60-day DL. Expected to make Triple-A rehab start June 15
06/10/2006 Jorge De La Rosa RP Blister DL 15-day DL. Eligible to return June 24
06/10/2006 J.J. Hardy SS Ankle DL 15-day DL. Out until at least late June
06/05/2006 Tomo Ohka SP Shoulder DL 15-day DL. Out until at least late July
05/29/2006 Ben Sheets SP Shoulder DL 15-day DL. Out until at least late June
05/14/2006 Vince Perkins P Elbow DL 60-day DL. Out for the season

Minnesota Twins
Updated Player Pos Injury Status Expected Return
06/14/2006 Ruben Sierra DH Biceps DL 15-day DL. On Triple-A rehab assignment
06/14/2006 Shannon Stewart LF Foot DL 15-day DL. Out until at least July
06/11/2006 Dave Gassner SP Elbow DL 15-day DL. Out until at least late July
06/11/2006 Matt Guerrier RP Thumb DL 15-day DL. Out until at least mid-July

New York Mets
Updated Player Pos Injury Status Expected Return
06/14/2006 Cliff Floyd LF Ankle Questionable Questionable for June 15 at Philadelphia
05/31/2006 Xavier Nady RF Appendectomy DL 15-day DL. Out until late June
05/30/2006 Brian Bannister SP Hamstring DL 60-day DL. Out until at least late June
05/07/2006 Victor Zambrano SP Elbow DL 60-day DL. Out for the season
03/24/2006 Juan Padilla RP Elbow DL 60-day DL. Out for the season

New York Yankees
Updated Player Pos Injury Status Expected Return
06/15/2006 Bubba Crosby CF Hamstring DL 15-day DL. On Triple-A rehab assignment. Questionable for June 15 vs. Cleveland
06/15/2006 Randy Johnson SP Suspension Suspend Out until at least June 21 at Philadelphia
06/15/2006 Jorge Posada C Elbow Questionable Questionable for June 15 vs. Cleveland
06/13/2006 Octavio Dotel RP Elbow DL 15-day DL. On Triple-A rehab assignment
06/13/2006 Gary Sheffield RF Wrist DL 15-day DL. Out until at least September
06/05/2006 Darrell Rasner RP Shoulder DL 15-day DL. Out until at least late June
05/26/2006 Tanyon Sturtze RP Shoulder DL 60-day DL. Out for the season
05/22/2006 Carl Pavano SP Elbow, shoulder, back, buttocks DL 15-day DL. Out until at least August
05/13/2006 Hideki Matsui LF Wrist DL 15-day DL. Out until at least September

Oakland Athletics
Updated Player Pos Injury Status Expected Return
06/15/2006 Frank Thomas DH Quad DL 15-day DL. Out until at least late June
06/14/2006 Justin Duchscherer RP Elbow DL 15-day DL. Out until at least July
06/14/2006 Mark Ellis 2B Thumb DL 15-day DL. Out until at least early July
06/10/2006 Rich Harden SP Elbow DL 15-day DL. Out until at least mid-July
06/05/2006 Joe Kennedy RP Biceps DL 15-day DL. Out until at least late June

Philadelphia Phillies
Updated Player Pos Injury Status Expected Return
06/14/2006 Julio F. Santana RP Elbow DL 15-day DL. Out for the season
06/12/2006 Jon Lieber SP Groin DL 15-day DL. Out until at least July
06/10/2006 Mike Lieberthal C Hip DL 15-day DL. Eligible to return June 21
05/14/2006 Randy Wolf SP Elbow DL 15-day DL. Out until at least late June

Pittsburgh Pirates
Updated Player Pos Injury Status Expected Return
06/14/2006 Jeromy Burnitz RF Calf Questionable Questionable for June 15 vs. St. Louis
06/14/2006 Kip Wells SP Shoulder DL 60-day DL. Expected to make Double-A rehab start June 15. Might return for June 25 start at L.A. Dodgers
06/07/2006 Ryan Doumit C Hamstring DL 15-day DL. Out until at least late July
06/05/2006 Bryan Bullington SP Shoulder DL 60-day DL. Out until at least mid-July
06/05/2006 Jody Gerut RF Knee DL 15-day DL. Out for the season
06/05/2006 John Van Benschoten RP Shoulder DL 15-day DL. Out until at least mid-July

San Diego Padres
Updated Player Pos Injury Status Expected Return
06/07/2006 Woody Williams SP Leg DL 15-day DL. Out until at least late June
06/05/2006 Doug Brocail RP Heart DL 15-day DL. Out until at least late June
05/30/2006 Shawn Estes SP Elbow DL 15-day DL. Out for the season
05/01/2006 Ryan Klesko LF Shoulder DL 15-day DL. Out until at least mid-July

San Francisco Giants
Updated Player Pos Injury Status Expected Return
06/13/2006 Lance Niekro 1B Groin DL 15-day DL. Out until at least early July
06/12/2006 Mike Matheny C Concussion DL 15-day DL. Questionable for June 16-18 series at Seattle
06/05/2006 Kelyn Acosta SP Elbow DL 60-day DL. Out until at least July

Seattle Mariners
Updated Player Pos Injury Status Expected Return
06/11/2006 Gil Meche SP Hip Probable Probable for June 16 start vs. San Francisco
06/05/2006 Chris Snelling LF Knee DL 15-day DL. On Triple-A rehab assignment

St. Louis Cardinals
Updated Player Pos Injury Status Expected Return
06/14/2006 Rick Ankiel OF Knee DL 15-day DL. Out for the season
06/14/2006 John Rodriguez LF Wrist Questionable Questionable for June 15 at Pittsburgh
06/11/2006 Larry Bigbie LF Hernia DL 15-day DL. Out until at least July
06/04/2006 Albert Pujols 1B Oblique DL 15-day DL. Out until at least July
05/12/2006 Ricardo Rincon RP Shoulder DL 15-day DL. Out for the season

Tampa Bay Devil Rays
Updated Player Pos Injury Status Expected Return
06/14/2006 Dan Miceli RP Shoulder DL 60-day DL. Out until at least mid-July
06/14/2006 Tyler Walker RP Elbow DL 15-day DL. Out until at least late June
06/11/2006 Delmon Young RF Suspended Suspend Eligible to return to Triple-A on June 19
06/05/2006 Luis Ordaz SS Knee DL 60-day DL. Out until at least July
04/01/2006 Shinji Mori RP Labrum DL 60-day DL. Out for the season

Texas Rangers
Updated Player Pos Injury Status Expected Return
06/14/2006 Scott Feldman RP Forearm Questionable Questionable for June 15 vs. Chicago White Sox
06/14/2006 John Wasdin RP Hand Probable Probable for June 15 vs. Chicago White Sox
06/12/2006 Frank Francisco RP Elbow DL 15-day DL. On Double-A rehab assignment
06/12/2006 Josh Rupe SP Elbow DL 60-day DL. On Double-A rehab assignment
06/10/2006 Fabio Castro RP Groin DL 15-day DL. On Double-A rehab assignment
05/31/2006 Adam Eaton SP Finger DL 60-day DL. Out until at least mid-July

Toronto Blue Jays
Updated Player Pos Injury Status Expected Return
06/13/2006 A.J. Burnett SP Elbow DL 60-day DL. On Triple-A rehab assignment
06/10/2006 Gustavo Chacin SP Elbow DL 15-day DL. Out until at least mid-July
06/10/2006 Pete Walker RP Shoulder DL 15-day DL. Out until at least July

Washington Nationals
Updated Player Pos Injury Status Expected Return
06/14/2006 Pedro Astacio SP Forearm DL 15-day DL. Out until at least mid-July
06/14/2006 John Patterson SP Forearm DL 15-day DL. Expected to make Triple-A rehab start June 17. Might return for June 23 start at Baltimore
06/14/2006 Daryle Ward RF Flu Questionable Questionable for June 15 vs. Colorado
06/11/2006 Ryan Drese SP Elbow DL 15-day DL. Might be out for the season
06/07/2006 Zach Day SP Shoulder DL 60-day DL. Out for the season
06/05/2006 Alex Escobar CF Hamstring DL 15-day DL. Out until at least July
06/05/2006 Santiago Ramirez RP Elbow DL 15-day DL. Out until at least late June
06/05/2006 Felix Rodriguez RP Shoulder DL 15-day DL. Out until at least late June
05/31/2006 Joey Eischen RP Shoulder DL 60-day DL. Out for the season
05/15/2006 Cristian Guzman SS Shoulder DL 60-day DL. Out for the season
03/28/2006 Luis Ayala RP Elbow DL 60-day DL. Out for the season
03/28/2006 Brian Lawrence SP Shoulder DL 60-day DL. Out for the season

Fibonacci · 06-15-2006, 07:56 PM

[quote=Raidergoo]I am pretty sure that there are two CEI in this data from CBS. Perhaps more.

Considering we're not 40% into the season and the current body count is at least 2 of 800, that's not bad.

____________________

2 CEI out of 800 players 40% tthrough a season equates to a 0.625% rate for the entire season. Since RL should be the average injury rate, I feel vindicated in assessing 1% on low injury setting to be waaay too high.

Mr.Opinion · 06-15-2006, 07:57 PM

Did this reaaaaaaaaaally have to be bumped again?

RonCo · 06-15-2006, 09:26 PM

I think it's valuable to understand what's real and what isn't. I was orignally taken aback by the OOTP injury algorithm. It can still, I think, be tweaked, as I think it may well be a shade too harsh in dtd vs. major lost time issues. But the data posted above is pretty clear that (at least using this season as a barometer) the current OOTP algorithm is not so far out of line as to be unreasonable.

Raidergoo · 06-15-2006, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fibonacci

2 CEI out of 800 players 40% tthrough a season equates to a 0.625% rate for the entire season. Since RL should be the average injury rate, I feel vindicated in assessing 1% on low injury setting to be waaay too high.

How many of those 60 day DL guys are never going to play again? They are zombies. They are dead, they just dont realize it yet.

Qrusher14242 · 06-15-2006, 11:29 PM

The big thing is the CEI's. There's too many of them on Low with the default injuries file. It's very rare for someone to just retire from an injury and not attempt a retirement. It also seems to hit the star players the most.

endgame · 06-15-2006, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qrusher14242

It also seems to hit the start players the most.

Wouldn't this be expected, given the opportunity to incur one is greater with a greater number of appearances?

06-14-2006, 01:43 PM	#85 (permalink)
swampdragon All Star Starter Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Lonely Mountain Posts: 1,732	I just restarted my 1871 league. For grins, I've gone back and logged injuries for the last 30 days (16 team league). 22 DTD injuries 20 out for 1 to 4 weeks 7 out 6 weeks to 3 months 6 season ending injuries 0 career ending injuries So over the course of a 6 month season, the average team will have 8-9 day to day injuries, 8 minor injuries, and about 5 major injuries, half of which will be season ending. That doesn't seem horribly out of line with real life. It may need a little severity tweaking. but not much. __________________ "The only way to oblige men to speak well of us is to act well." -- Voltaire

06-14-2006, 05:53 PM	#92 (permalink)
blackrussian All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 838	here something i ran across from bill james "the baseball book 1990." he address the topic of why there seem to be a lot more injuries today, modern ball, than prior years. i just broke my arm, so im typing with 1 hand and it sucks, so here's the gist: James says is that there arent necessarily more injuries in modern baseball for whatever reasons people cite (players arent as tough, training, turf, etc), but peoples perceptions and memories are distorted when comparing; "selective memory" he calls it. he gives some examples from further back in history such as the 49 yankees who suffered no less than 71 injuries, many of them severe: dimaggio 1/2 season, tommy henrich - fractured vertabrae, mize - 1 month dislocated shoulder, keller- rest of season w/back problems, berra - 2-3 wks w/broken finger, bob porterfield - lost for season with torn muscle, etc. he provides some other team examples as well as mentioning some stars like ted williams and the litany of injuries, minor and major, they suffered throughout the career. i pretty much agree with that. im my own limited experience w/the game ive seen a decent handling of injuries over the course of a season or more. i think i agree though, that the number of CEI's seems to be a bit high in relation to the overall number of injuries. if that frequency could be adjusted without altering the rest of the injuries, that would be helpful. i think the other factor is more personal taste, what one's perception/expectation of what the injury model should be like. __________________ v'

06-15-2006, 05:46 PM	#93 (permalink)
Fibonacci Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 259	I just finished the 1903 season with 4 career ending injuries out of a total of 404 players, with the injury setting on low! Somehow, I don't think that even with on an average injury setting, 1% of the players should suffer a career ending injury. __________________ It is not certain that everything is uncertain. - Blaise Pascal

06-15-2006, 07:56 PM	#95 (permalink)
Fibonacci Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 259	[quote=Raidergoo]I am pretty sure that there are two CEI in this data from CBS. Perhaps more. Considering we're not 40% into the season and the current body count is at least 2 of 800, that's not bad. ____________________ 2 CEI out of 800 players 40% tthrough a season equates to a 0.625% rate for the entire season. Since RL should be the average injury rate, I feel vindicated in assessing 1% on low injury setting to be waaay too high. __________________ It is not certain that everything is uncertain. - Blaise Pascal Last edited by Fibonacci : 06-15-2006 at 07:58 PM.

06-15-2006, 07:57 PM	#96 (permalink)
Mr.Opinion All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2003 Location: SkiFree Lodge Posts: 818	Did this reaaaaaaaaaally have to be bumped again? __________________

06-15-2006, 09:26 PM	#97 (permalink)
RonCo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 5,470	I think it's valuable to understand what's real and what isn't. I was orignally taken aback by the OOTP injury algorithm. It can still, I think, be tweaked, as I think it may well be a shade too harsh in dtd vs. major lost time issues. But the data posted above is pretty clear that (at least using this season as a barometer) the current OOTP algorithm is not so far out of line as to be unreasonable.

06-15-2006, 11:29 PM	#99 (permalink)
Qrusher14242 All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: CA Posts: 981	The big thing is the CEI's. There's too many of them on Low with the default injuries file. It's very rare for someone to just retire from an injury and not attempt a retirement. It also seems to hit the star players the most. __________________ "Go then, there are other worlds than these" Last edited by Qrusher14242 : 06-16-2006 at 12:32 AM.

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