Injuries make this game unplayable

[fantom1979]

Originally Posted by endgame

Wouldn't this be expected, given the opportunity to incur one is greater with a greater number of appearances?

I think he meant "star players"

[RonCo]

Originally Posted by Raidergoo

How many of those 60 day DL guys are never going to play again? They are zombies. They are dead, they just dont realize it yet.

That's certainly possible. But you don't know. And, in fact, I think it highly likely that a majority of players on the 60-day list will come back and play, though maybe so ineffectively that they can't continue their careers. When people are saying "too many CEIs" they should be interpreted to be saying "it's unrealistic when a player loses all ability to attempt to play."

OOTP's algortihm today is playable, but unsatisfying. I think OOTP would be far, far better in this area if there were no such thing as a CEI, but that a player with such a drastic injury merely lose large chunks of talent/rating. This modle fits reality, and seems (honestly) like it wouldn't be that hard to code give a little breathing room in the development schedule. The change is not a high-priority one, but one that I think would improve the game and make it more fun.

I don't think this statement or approach is too controversial, but if it is, I apologize.

[joek1972]

Every season, at least one of my star players goes down in spring training and misses the whole season. The season I just simmed, I lost three outfielders for the whole season before I made it out of spring training. Star outfielders appear to be especially prone. My fair-to-average infielders are like little mini-Ripkens. The mediocre players never seem to get hurt.

I know injuries are a part of the game, but having your entire outfield suffer season-ending injuries by March 26 is pretty ridiculous and not a lot of fun. In fact, "not a lot of fun" is a phrase I'm using more and more with this game.

[Raidergoo]

Originally Posted by RonCo

That's certainly possible. But you don't know. And, in fact, I think it highly likely that a majority of players on the 60-day list will come back and play, though maybe so ineffectively that they can't continue their careers.

In real MLB, how many guys on the 60 Day DL need to be CEI to hit 1% CEI for the season? 3?

I agree with the idea that the AI player just does not know when to not quit. The get hit with the CEI boolean and are done. A never say die attitude could be incorporated at some point.

[RonCo]

I understand and agree with your point, Radiergoo.

[treedom]

Originally Posted by RonCo

I think OOTP would be far, far better in this area if there were no such thing as a CEI

Whoa whoa, let's think of the ramifications of what you're proposing here. How could we have death leagues if that happened? I WANT MY AZTEC LEAGUE!

[redmarkYankees]

Originally Posted by treedom

Whoa whoa, let's think of the ramifications of what you're proposing here. How could we have death leagues if that happened? I WANT MY AZTEC LEAGUE!

I better add "severed" back in to my injuries generator as a high level flesh wound...

[redmarkYankees]

Originally Posted by redmarkYankees

I will, but I intend to rework it quite a bit later today. As often with a work in progress, by the time I finished with formulae, parameters, modifiers and bits of vba code, it's not as tidy and easy to use as it should be, and there are too many small tweaks in the code.

Now available here, though as I made it more complicated as well as tidier, it's still not necessarily easy to use.

[thbroman]

Originally Posted by redmarkYankees

Now available here, though as I made it more complicated as well as tidier, it's still not necessarily easy to use.

It seems that you came up with an interesting workaround to the low level of day-to-day injuries by repetitively listing them. Inspired idea!

[Big Six]

Thanks for your work on the injury file, RMY.

I was seeing an alarming number of CEI's to star players, too. In one historical league I simmed from 1901-1920, with injuries set to "low," I had SEVEN "real-life" Hall of Famers zapped with CEI's. Eddie Plank was cut down in 1909...Christy Mathewson and Chief Bender in 1910...Joe Jackson in 1912...Rabbit Maranville in 1916...George Sisler and Edd Roush in 1918. I don't recall seeing many CEI's to non-stars, although I wouldn't have paid as much attention to the untimely disappearance of a Mickey Doolan or a Bob Unglaub.

I had decided to solve the situation in a "low tech" fashion. As soon as the World Series ended each year, I looked for players who had major injuries, and I rolled a six-sided die for each one. If I rolled a one or a two, I left the guy alone; if I rolled anything else, I played Great Baseball Deity and used the editor to restore him to health. For my solo play, it would have worked just fine. We almost always incorporated "house rules" like that into the table games we played growing up.

Thanks to RMY, I don't think I'll have to roll the die anymore, unless I'm playing a table game.

[Fibonacci]

Originally Posted by redmarkYankees

Now available here, though as I made it more complicated as well as tidier, it's still not necessarily easy to use.

I haven't had the opportunity to study this closely. (Okay, it has nothing to do with opportunity, I've just been lazy.) But am I correct in stating that the gist of this is that the frequency of injury is independent of the severity of the injury, and what you are doing is adding injuries with lesser, (non CEI), consequences? The net effect is that you get the same total amount of injuries, but now have a lower chance of a severe injury?

[redmarkYankees]

Yes, more or less. In the original file, 11 out of 93 injuries are potential CEIs. In my file, it's 9 out of 1,143. It's not just the CEIs though, what I was trying to do is weight (i.e. repeat) DTD and the more common short term injuries. With the default file, injuries at 'normal' seemed to produce too many CEIs, but having injuries too low seems to allow some hitters to play for 25-30 years (and never decline) because they never had a knock.

[thbroman]

I haven't simmed over vast numbers of seasons, but my more fine-grained impression (and it's just an impression) is that indeed redmark Yankees's mod is really good at raising the number of DTD injuries and reducing the CEI and SEI injuries. I heartily recommend it, to get more people to use it and see if it as good as first impressions suggest it is!

[Fibonacci]

Originally Posted by redmarkYankees

Yes, more or less. In the original file, 11 out of 93 injuries are potential CEIs. In my file, it's 9 out of 1,143. It's not just the CEIs though, what I was trying to do is weight (i.e. repeat) DTD and the more common short term injuries. With the default file, injuries at 'normal' seemed to produce too many CEIs, but having injuries too low seems to allow some hitters to play for 25-30 years (and never decline) because they never had a knock.

Thanks for the response, and a BIG thanks for all your work in this area. (I had an unreasonable number of CEI's even at low injury setting.)

[blgoblue2]

Originally Posted by eriqjaffe

It's a real shame that injuries are preventing you from playing OOTP. What is it, Carpal Tunnel? Broken finger?

I like eriqjaffe

[HoustonGM]

I'm gonna try it once Cubbyfan/Rolen release their rosters.

[Pirate Fan]

Originally Posted by Claybor

Simply proves and earlier point I was called out on.

I am not saying players injuries today arent valid, I am sure they are, I just think there are a lot of minor injuries that could be played through. I am also not saying players of the past were all ironmen because they were'nt. I was just saying that it was a fact that injuries have been on the rise in modern day baseball by a fairly large degree.

I don't think we can conclude that it is a fact that injuries are on the rise in major league baseball. It could be that teams have minor league replacements that are a lot closer to their major league counterparts than they did 15 years ago. So if a player incurs a minor injury that will, say, reduce him to 90% efficiency for the next 2 weeks or so it makes sense for the team to put that player on the DL and call up the minor leaguer that is 95% as good as the injured player. Meanwhile if the same injury occurred to a player 15 years ago and the team did not have an adequate replacemnt he would be asked to play through the injury.