Injuries make this game unplayable

[GForce]

Originally Posted by TonyJ

As I understand it, Markus received real MLB injury data collected by Will Carroll from Baseball Prospectus. Assuming Markus coded the data in to the game correctly (and I have no reason to assume that he didn't), injuries in this version should be as close to accurate as one can get.

Ah...I think that's what I'm thinking of

I concede I've been too busy doing roster stuff to play and see the injury issue/nonissue, so I can't really comment too much on it.

GH

[JohnVee]

It seems to me that whenever a player stands out in OOTP2006 he gets a sign put in his back: "give me a major injury!" It seems that ordinary players are immune to major injuries but star players have suppressed immune systems which leads them to all sorts of major injuries.

I will propose the term: SISD for Star Immune System Deficiency.

[DaveM0]

Originally Posted by Nukester

Do you have Excel ? It is much cleaner to look at with Excel (open/delimited file/comma)

Ok it does look better that way, but what do the min and max number represent, is that days, months, weeks? And can you add onto the list, so that I can add a few more and when the game generates an injury it has a better chance of selecting a lesser injury.

[DaveM0]

Originally Posted by JohnVee

It seems to me that whenever a player stands out in OOTP2006 he gets a sign put in his back: "give me a major injury!" It seems that ordinary players are immune to major injuries but star players have suppressed immune systems which leads them to all sorts of major injuries.

I will propose the term: SISD for Star Immune System Deficiency.

Lol exactly what I am seeing. My sorry players hardly ever get hurt (and yes, they do play quite often because my starter is injured). I had my backup catcher last ALL year long without having an injury and he was only rated 25, which is unheard of in this version. I have no depth at all on my team, can't seem to get my players to develop too well in the minors.

[Nukester]

Originally Posted by DaveM0

Ok it does look better that way, but what do the min and max number represent, is that days, months, weeks? And can you add onto the list, so that I can add a few more and when the game generates an injury it has a better chance of selecting a lesser injury.

I believe the min/max are days, and yes you can add to the file. Ive not done much editing of this file, but its been done in past versions

[Syd Thrift]

Maybe I've just been starstruck, but my experience with the game has been lots of day to day injuries (some bad enough to warrant DL time), a few less 2-3 week injuries, a few couple-to-several month injuries, and a CEI or two every year. It doesn't seem excessive to me at all. Again, I think that a large part of this is that pretty much every baseball game ever created to this point severely underplayed injuries for customer satisfaction reasons (EA is going to generate a lot less grief having Barry Bonds available all year than it is if Dontrelle Willis gets hurt in a gamer's league). However, in a game where our investment is with the overall team and not with making the individual players on the team into superstars, it makes sense to model injuries realistically.

You can always turn them down or off. Bear in mind that doing so will make players last until they're 50 because they won't be breaking down from accumulated injuries.

[Raidergoo]

I see scrubs blowing up all the time, but the cost to me is so insignificant I don't pay them any heed. An average 25 yr old SP in AA out 8 months? Welcome to the rest of your life, because I am going to release you.

When a real world HoF player blows up 2 years into a campaign, that becomes a Greek tradgedy worth a USA channel TV movie.

Absent a reason to care, the other injuries fade into the background.

[TonyJ]

One thing I would like to see is CEI's completely removed from the game. No player outside of the very rare Dave Dravecky suffers an injury that causes them to never at least try to come back from. A more accurate model would be a severe injury that causes them to miss a year or more followed by the player coming back, possibly with a loss of skill. It would also be cool to see players get TJ'd and come back with more velocity (that actually does happen nowadays).

[witwerk8267]

Tony J that is an excellent idea. Hopefully it won't get lost at least for future versions.

[GForce]

Originally Posted by TonyJ

One thing I would like to see is CEI's completely removed from the game. No player outside of the very rare Dave Dravecky suffers an injury that causes them to never at least try to come back from. A more accurate model would be a severe injury that causes them to miss a year or more followed by the player coming back, possibly with a loss of skill. It would also be cool to see players get TJ'd and come back with more velocity (that actually does happen nowadays).

100% agreed.

GH

[DaveM0]

Originally Posted by Raidergoo

I see scrubs blowing up all the time, but the cost to me is so insignificant I don't pay them any heed. An average 25 yr old SP in AA out 8 months? Welcome to the rest of your life, because I am going to release you.

When a real world HoF player blows up 2 years into a campaign, that becomes a Greek tradgedy worth a USA channel TV movie.

Absent a reason to care, the other injuries fade into the background.

I keep track of my all my injuries in the majors and I know for sure that the proportion of injuries on my team mainly happen to my star players. It could be that I just have bad luck. I just simulated the first week of my season and I had two more players get hurt (decent, not great but I don't have any great players left not injured.)



#2 Starter Searles (Also missed most of last season)
RF Gomez, Voted Rookie of the Year last year, rated 72 (spring training injury)
#1 Starter Edney, was Rated 78 (was injured last year, out 14 months total)
3B Gibbs - Rated 68, my best power hitter who usually hits 30-40 HR a year (not too bad of an injury in comparison)
3B Garcia - Rated 56, starts at 2nd base
2B Delaguarda - Backup 2nd base, rated ~50 (The only one that had no impact on my team)

I lost 1/3 of my starting lineup before the end of the first week of the season.

[TonyJ]

Probably just sample size/bad luck. I seriously doubt that Markus would code in a feature that causes your best players to get injured. After all, the goal is accuracy.

[Syd Thrift]

Yeah, that is a good idea...

Here's a file I just played with on the fly. There should no no longer be any CEIs, but to make up for it there are now several injuries that take 18 months or longer to rebound from. The big question here is whether or not players will continue to come back from these and play until they're 50...

[Zitofan75]

Originally Posted by TonyJ

Probably just sample size/bad luck. I seriously doubt that Markus would code in a feature that causes your best players to get injured. After all, the goal is accuracy.

Maybe Markus is responsible that IRL Rich Harden is out AGAIN, this time with TJ surgery and see ya in 2007! It's the 4th time in 13 months he's been on the DL. It happens. It sucks when it's your guy it happens to but it happens.

[Syd Thrift]

I'm running a 40 year simulation using this injury file. I'll let y'all know how it goes once I get through...

[jarmenia]

I posted this in the testers forum but I thought I'd cross post it here for everyone to see.

Based on a number of posts dealing with injury severity, it seems many people have a problem with the length (not frequency) of injuries being found in their leagues. I had the same feeling so I decided to do some number crunching. All my data is based on a snapshot of my league taken at the current state. Here's what I found.

50% of all injures assigned to a player are potentially season ending
50% of all injuries assigned to a player are potentially career ending
68% of all injuries assigned to a player have a minimum time <= 30 days

My question is more as to how is the length of time an injury will affect a player determined? Also, and here is the big one, at what point is it determined that an injury is either season ending or career ending? Speculating as to how this might work wouldn't be worth while but there is a big difference between determining if an injury is season / career ending then picking the injury vs picking the injury, then determining if the injury is season / career ending.

My opinion would be to first determine if the injury is season / career ending. If it is, then select an appropriate injury that would allow this. Otherwise the injury should not be season / career ending and the appropriate time would then be selected.

Without knowing how injury selection works, I can't give much more of a suggestion but I can definately see a potential problem based on the data I have. I don't subscribe to BP so I don't access to their injury data, but it would be nice to compare my snapshot to a snapshot of their actual data.

[Syd Thrift]

You know, the more I look at it, the more I think that what happens is that the game first determines if there's an injury then randomly chooses one from the appropriate list. I wonder if it would handle multiple instances of the same injury as a means of making the probabilities work out a bit better...

[Arlie Latham]

Are you sure you don't want your boys affected with Tuberculosis, Mysterious Diseases and Military Service hitches?


Fights, Cholera, Dying players, It's all here!

[Killing Time]

Originally Posted by TonyJ

One thing I would like to see is CEI's completely removed from the game. No player outside of the very rare Dave Dravecky suffers an injury that causes them to never at least try to come back from. A more accurate model would be a severe injury that causes them to miss a year or more followed by the player coming back, possibly with a loss of skill. It would also be cool to see players get TJ'd and come back with more velocity (that actually does happen nowadays).

I hope Marc and Markus read that and took notes.

[jarmenia]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

You know, the more I look at it, the more I think that what happens is that the game first determines if there's an injury then randomly chooses one from the appropriate list. I wonder if it would handle multiple instances of the same injury as a means of making the probabilities work out a bit better...

That's how I *think* its happening. I'm waiting to hear back if thats the case.