I didn't think I would say this

[highandoutside]

I was ready to dislike OOTP 2006 and stick with 6.5. After reading this board, I thought the game was going to be hopelessly clunky and not a lot of fun. Boy was I wrong. After playing the demo, this game is moving exactly in the direction that I, for one, want. The interface is not that complicated folks. I am moving around quite easily after only a weekend. The GM stuff is fine and in my mind no worse than 6.5. But the in-game features are where this thing shines. I have never been so immersed in a baseball game. The pitch by pitch mode is out of sight and adds a whole other dimension to the game. I can’t believe I’m saying this, but OOTP may have just eclipsed DMB when it comes to managerial aspects. As long as the underlying engine holds out, I’m sold. It already “feels” more realistic than 6.5 and on par with DMB. Time will tell, but this is as close to being in the dugout I have ever felt while playing one of these games.

I should also say that the webcast page is simply brilliant. The fact that the pitch location window is meaningful and just not cosmetic is really, really cool. If you like playing out your games and feeling the ebb and flow of every at-bat, this game excels. It may not appeal to everyone, but for those players who are in no hurry to rush through a season and, instead, want to soak in the story which is a baseball season, this game is perfect. (By the way, I really don’t understand how anyone ever complained about losing the one pitch mode. All you have to do is hit the enter key and the game plays like 6.5.)

I don’t mean to be an overly enthusiastic, but I am really shocked that so many people are so upset with this game. As someone who has played simulation baseball as a hobby for over 20 years, I am just tickled that the hobby has come this far. I am sure there are minor AI problems that I will run into. But, in the end, this is a huge leap forward in the franchise and my enthusiasm reflects a tremendous amount of relief. Trust me, I expected to be very disappointed. I was getting ready to move on to Puresim or just play DMB full-time and lose my fictional league. For the moment, however, my fictional league lives and it fully incorporated into the ootp 2006 universe.

[1998 Yankees]

I agree with you for the most part. After the 1.03 patch, I uninstalled OOTP6.5, never to return.

You say you are using the game for a fictional league. I gather from what I have read here that the game is more fun for fictional leaguers like you and me as opposed to historical leaguers who see various shortcomings in how the game simulates history.

You probably have just started the next long-running thread, by the way.

[rasnell]

A lot of the criticism preceded patch 1.03. Significant tweaks and bug removal were done.

I was very unhappy with the game, but really changed my opinion once 1.03 hit. There are still many changes to hope for, but the fictional simming is wonderful.

Historical fell short, but I can live with the new features, the wealth of stats, the complexity of the game and how rewarding fictional play can be.

Realize how high the hopes are of the long-time OOTP'ers. Markus has raised the bar to a very high level and has trouble topping himself.

[Zitofan75]

Originally Posted by rasnell

Realize how high the hopes are of the long-time OOTP'ers. Markus has raised the bar to a very high level and has trouble topping himself.

Particularly when starting over. The previous versions of OOTP had evolved into a strong game and now he's starting from scratch.

[scprideandms]

IMEO, with all the features/complexity we all want whether historical or fictional it is going to be VERY difficult to make ONE game that will do both to msatisfy all the hard core fictional and/or hsitorical simmers...

[Twelvefield]

I think the 1.3 patch is an excellent patch, and has resolved a fair number of issues I was having with the game.

[onnel]

I'd would agree EXCEPT:

It looks like 1.3 introudced a new bug whereby fictional deadball leagues are simply *impossible*. Closers are always being used in fictional leagues created under 1.3 even when use relievers and closers are both on very rarely and pictcher endurance is at the highest level.

Sadly, this is a showstopper forthe way I play. :-(

this bug has been reproduced, but as yet Markus has not responded to it. i really hope we hear from his, as I don't think it's acceptable to leave the game in this state (considering this was not a problem pre-1.03).

Onnel

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by Twelvefield

I think the 1.3 patch is an excellent patch, and has resolved a fair number of issues I was having with the game.

Definitely. I was one of the people on the OOTP 2006/6.5 fence as I was reading about all of the problems here, especially the problems with player aging and development curves. When I read about 19 year-old superstars and players not hanging around long enough to qualify for the hall of fame, and the lack of responsiveness to reasonable tweaks of the modifiers, I was pretty upset. However, I saw how much the community got behind this issue, how the developers paid attention, how improvements to these algorithms were included in 1.03, and the favorable feedback posted since then, and I am very encouraged by all of this.

Yet, as evidenced by onnel's post that just preceded this one, there's still much to be done to improve the game. I am looking forward to it.

[Twelvefield]

Bingo. Well put.

[Questdog]

Originally Posted by onnel

I'd would agree EXCEPT:

It looks like 1.3 introudced a new bug whereby fictional deadball leagues are simply *impossible*. Closers are always being used in fictional leagues created under 1.3 even when use relievers and closers are both on very rarely and pictcher endurance is at the highest level.

Sadly, this is a showstopper forthe way I play. :-(

this bug has been reproduced, but as yet Markus has not responded to it. i really hope we hear from his, as I don't think it's acceptable to leave the game in this state (considering this was not a problem pre-1.03).

Onnel

It's not a bug and was not introduced into 1.03. In the initial release you were forced to have at least a 3-man rotation and a much larger roster.

The game was not intended to simulate 19th century baseball. What features exist to facilitate it have only been introduced in the patches due to player requests. Markus has been very responsive to our needs and this version of OOTP is the absolute easiest yet to set up Old Tyme Leagues.

[Syd Thrift]

Also, it's not that easy at all to simulate pitcher usage from this period. It's not simply a matter of never using relievers. Realistically, the #1 starters on each team should be coming on in relief in high-leverage situations. Teams might have a youngster on the squad or a "Sunday starter" (at least in the cities without blue laws!) who could come in in the case of blowouts. Although even there, teams would often just leave a guy in...

Originally Posted by Burt Solomon's Baseball Timeline

April 28, 1901: In Chicago, the White Stockings avenge yesterday's loss by banging out 23 hits - all singles - in beating the Blues [of Cleveland], 13-1. Charles "Bock" Baker, in his first major league start, allows all 23 hits.

To be honest, I'm kind of glad I don't see that.

[onnel]

Questdog, please see the following post from the technical support forum:

Too few CGs

I am NOT trying to simulate 19th Century baseball. This was 1901 with 3 man rotations. Nothing wild about that. The number of complete games is totally unrealistic for that period (comparing simulated statistics to the 1901 stats from Baseball Reference, again see the thread above).

This is a problem, and it needs to be addressed with at least a functioning workaround. If you know of something that I and the other people who posted in that thread (Charlie hough, for example) are missing then please (in all seriousness!!!) enlighten us. I want to enjoy the game, but right now I cannot find a way to make it function for a relatively "normal" case.

Onnel

P.S. To make sure it also wasn't a problem with 3 man rotations, I just tried it with 4 man rotations, and the problem is equally extant. If you have a solution, I would love to hear it!

Originally Posted by Questdog

It's not a bug and was not introduced into 1.03. In the initial release you were forced to have at least a 3-man rotation and a much larger roster.

The game was not intended to simulate 19th century baseball. What features exist to facilitate it have only been introduced in the patches due to player requests. Markus has been very responsive to our needs and this version of OOTP is the absolute easiest yet to set up Old Tyme Leagues.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by onnel

I'd would agree EXCEPT:

It looks like 1.3 introudced a new bug whereby fictional deadball leagues are simply *impossible*. Closers are always being used in fictional leagues created under 1.3 even when use relievers and closers are both on very rarely and pictcher endurance is at the highest level.

Sadly, this is a showstopper forthe way I play. :-(

this bug has been reproduced, but as yet Markus has not responded to it. i really hope we hear from his, as I don't think it's acceptable to leave the game in this state (considering this was not a problem pre-1.03).

Onnel

Onnel probably has a valid point about noticing a difference with 1.03 concerning this issue. Recall that this was one of the things listed in the changes included in that patch:

- Tweaked closer usage in order to give them a few more innings pitched

Onnel, just a shot in the dark because I have no knowledge of how you are set up: Can you change all CL positions to MR and have that do the trick? Maybe the tweak in 1.03 is zeroed in on the CL designation. Maybe i'm thick, but reading your original post, why would you want closers in your 1901 game anyway? Just trying to help.

[Syd Thrift]

I think the whole point is that he doesn't want closers. However, when you have a 5-man pitching staff with a 4-man rotation, you have to stick that one reliever *somewhere.*

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

I think the whole point is that he doesn't want closers. However, when you have a 5-man pitching staff with a 4-man rotation, you have to stick that one reliever *somewhere.*

So, why can't he find all CL's in his game, change them to MR's (or even SP's) and ensure that no pitching staffs have anybody in the CL spot? That would prevent a 1.03 tweak focusing on CL from coming into play.

Of course, he would have to be in full control of the league, because AI would ultimately do what it wants about position and pitch staff, of course. He's probably going to shoot me down on that because, from his original post: "this is not an imported historical league but rather a fantasy league which I would like to have use 1901 era stats."

Hence my calling it a "shot in the dark."

[ctorg]

I think fictional play has always been much better in OOTP than any other form of play. Historical play is like an add-on that doesn't work nearly as well as in games that do that primarily like SOM or DMB. I don't see this changing too much, given the expansiveness of the game. Many of the prime features of the game are really directed more at fictional setups than real world ones.

[Questdog]

Originally Posted by onnel

Questdog, please see the following post from the technical support forum:

Too few CGs

I am NOT trying to simulate 19th Century baseball. This was 1901 with 3 man rotations. Nothing wild about that. The number of complete games is totally unrealistic for that period (comparing simulated statistics to the 1901 stats from Baseball Reference, again see the thread above).

This is a problem, and it needs to be addressed with at least a functioning workaround. If you know of something that I and the other people who posted in that thread (Charlie hough, for example) are missing then please (in all seriousness!!!) enlighten us. I want to enjoy the game, but right now I cannot find a way to make it function for a relatively "normal" case.

Onnel

P.S. To make sure it also wasn't a problem with 3 man rotations, I just tried it with 4 man rotations, and the problem is equally extant. If you have a solution, I would love to hear it!

The easy fix for 1901 is to give every pitcher in the league an Endurance rating of 200 and you will see realistic totals...

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by ctorg

I think fictional play has always been much better in OOTP than any other form of play. Historical play is like an add-on that doesn't work nearly as well as in games that do that primarily like SOM or DMB. I don't see this changing too much, given the expansiveness of the game. Many of the prime features of the game are really directed more at fictional setups than real world ones.

I remembered and dug up this post from "way back" (three weeks ago). This is the best apology for fictional play that I have seen yet:

The imposible task

[onnel]

Originally Posted by Questdog

The easy fix for 1901 is to give every pitcher in the league an Endurance rating of 200 and you will see realistic totals...

I will definitely give this a try as soon as i get a chance and report back. Thanks for the idea! I assume there's a way to do this without having to change every pitcher by hand?

Onnel

P.S. It remains a fact that this particular problem was not occurring pre-1.03, but as long as there's a workaround, I'll at least be able to play.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by onnel

I will definitely give this a try as soon as i get a chance and report back. Thanks for the idea! I assume there's a way to do this without having to change every pitcher by hand?

Onnel

P.S. It remains a fact that this particular problem was not occurring pre-1.03, but as long as there's a workaround, I'll at least be able to play.

Well, so much for my idea! I bow to the greater experience of Questdog.

Now perhaps back to topic?