A Little Financial Guidance Needed

endgame · 09-23-2006, 02:31 PM

I'm looking to rollback my league concept and begin with the once sought-after clean slate, i.e. all the players have no visible history of any playing time with no service time at all. The only remaining option I'd like to have, and will someday I'm sure, is the ability to add age parameters. In any event, the result is that effectively all players become rookie status and will sign for the league minimum in the inaugural draft. Most will retain the auto-renewal status, although I have seen in testing that extensions will be agreed to - I just fail to see the logic in that until the third year, and a few FAs will be signed establishing a minor benchmark of fiscal commitment.

This is handled on the front end with roughly a .615 modifier to finances and a slight tweaking on the Star-rated salaries to dial down the uppermost and lowest while leaving the middle primarily intact. What I am now considering is an early implementation of a salary cap, but one based on that 3-year look ahead with the intent to control both the extensions and signings that do occur and the range of those contracts once the real long-term negotiations start to come into play.

I'm thinking roughly along the lines of allowing a cap that translates into a maximum active roster salary distribution of players:

3 - Superstar quality at app. 8 mil for 24 milliion
3 - Above avg at app. 5 mil for 15 million
10 Average at app. 3 mil for 30 million
3 - Fair at 1/2 mil for 1.5 million
6 - Below or min at 150,000

If my math's right, that caps at about 72 mil, so I'm considering 75 mil.

Thoughts? Troubles ahead? Sound about right?

Syd Thrift · 09-23-2006, 02:43 PM

The quickest and easiest way to go would just be to multiply the salaries by .615 (actually the game does this for you when you change the financial coefficient and also does the same to any existing salaries, much to the chagrin of those of us who would like to see teams get hammered during economic downturns). I haven't played with the individual levels so I can't tell how many players of each type are on a typical team. Sorry!

endgame · 09-24-2006, 06:05 PM

Well, one thing I found out - at least it looks like this will happen - is that on Mar 02, with all of the team's active rosters expanding to 40 for ST, no one team looks like it will bring anyone besides the 25 man roster to training. In previous runs with this, I recall seeing the same thing, may even have taken the time to post the question then. In any event, most teams have 22-24 players salaried at minimum (as expected) and evidently no plans to evaluate any other talent for pay scales coming into the year. Interesting. I may have to follow suit and not make any adjustments myself.

Questdog · 09-24-2006, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by endgame

Well, one thing I found out - at least it looks like this will happen - is that on Mar 02, with all of the team's active rosters expanding to 40 for ST, no one team looks like it will bring anyone besides the 25 man roster to training. In previous runs with this, I recall seeing the same thing, may even have taken the time to post the question then. In any event, most teams have 22-24 players salaried at minimum (as expected) and evidently no plans to evaluate any other talent for pay scales coming into the year. Interesting. I may have to follow suit and not make any adjustments myself.

Actually, I've seen the AI with more than 25 men in spring training (With secondary rosters off, they will bring everyone in their organization). But really, they have no need to evaluate talent since they have access to the actual ratings....

endgame · 09-24-2006, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Questdog

Actually, I've seen the AI with more than 25 men in spring training (With secondary rosters off, they will bring everyone in their organization). But really, they have no need to evaluate talent since they have access to the actual ratings....

Oh, I've seen it many times taking 34-37 or so players into ST. But if you read my OP, I'm referring to the implications of running a "clean slate" or No Service time league. With everyone basically starting as rookies and consequently retaining all of their option years, it seems the AI is very reluctant to utilize any of those its first season. At least that appears to be the logic. Maybe you have some other ideas that would account for its avoidance - as a whole (not a single exception) - to move anyone into ST this inaugural season.

Questdog · 09-24-2006, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by endgame

Oh, I've seen it many times taking 34-37 or so players into ST. But if you read my OP, I'm referring to the implications of running a "clean slate" or No Service time league. With everyone basically starting as rookies and consequently retaining all of their option years, it seems the AI is very reluctant to utilize any of those its first season. At least that appears to be the logic. Maybe you have some other ideas that would account for its avoidance - as a whole (not a single exception) - to move anyone into ST this inaugural season.

If the AI is using it's brains and trying to avoid spending a player's options by this tactic, then I would be amazed and we'd have the first recorded instance of it making any sort of strategic decision...

Remember, this is the same AI that seems to think prospects grow on trees and isn't shy about offering its good players to the waiver wire....

I would look for other explanations, to be honest, and would first check to make sure that I had the 40-man roster enabled....

endgame · 09-24-2006, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Questdog

If the AI is using it's brains and trying to avoid spending a player's options by this tactic, then I would be amazed and we'd have the first recorded instance of it making any sort of strategic decision...

Remember, this is the same AI that seems to think prospects grow on trees and isn't shy about offering its good players to the waiver wire....

I would look for other explanations, to be honest, and would first check to make sure that I had the 40-man roster enabled....

Gave me a chuckle. Yes, everything's enabled etc.... I'm confident the decision correlates with the rookie status across the board. I'm at a loss to explain it with any other criteria. In fact, now that I think back on it, I'm not altogether sure they've even moved anyone on to the 40-man aside from the active players. I'll have to recheck that as that would be an oddity I don't recall observing previously. Hmmm...

Worst case scenario, I'll be able to see if ST season 2 yields different results. That is, if I get to season 2 before 2007 comes out.

Questdog · 09-24-2006, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by endgame

Gave me a chuckle. Yes, everything's enabled etc.... I'm confident the decision correlates with the rookie status across the board. I'm at a loss to explain it with any other criteria. In fact, now that I think back on it, I'm not altogether sure they've even moved anyone on to the 40-man aside from the active players. I'll have to recheck that as that would be an oddity I don't recall observing previously. Hmmm...

Worst case scenario, I'll be able to see if ST season 2 yields different results. That is, if I get to season 2 before 2007 comes out.

Possibly, then the AI is dormant and must be reawakened. Go to game setup and set the AI to be able to think and then run the computer manager on all teams.....(I'll bet this is the solution)...

endgame · 09-26-2006, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Questdog

Possibly, then the AI is dormant and must be reawakened. Go to game setup and set the AI to be able to think and then run the computer manager on all teams.....(I'll bet this is the solution)...

FWIW, wake up calls aren't loud enough. I'm convinced this is protocol for the engine when faced with an "all-rookie" roster. Day One of ST and even after implementing the AI alarm, perhaps a change or two in minor league pitching rosters was the meager result. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind. If I had the initiative, I'd run the same league into the next season for a preview, but I expect that all will return to normal at least in season two. Some extensions, although rare, have already been signed, but none of those in my league, only in the International League based in Australia.

Thanks again for the input. For anyone curious about the clean-slate experience, I'll drop a note about any incident of interest along the way. And btw, I did check and as of Day One ST every 40-man consists solely of the 25 men on the active roster.

Questdog · 09-26-2006, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by endgame

FWIW, wake up calls aren't loud enough. I'm convinced this is protocol for the engine when faced with an "all-rookie" roster. Day One of ST and even after implementing the AI alarm, perhaps a change or two in minor league pitching rosters was the meager result. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind. If I had the initiative, I'd run the same league into the next season for a preview, but I expect that all will return to normal at least in season two. Some extensions, although rare, have already been signed, but none of those in my league, only in the International League based in Australia.

Thanks again for the input. For anyone curious about the clean-slate experience, I'll drop a note about any incident of interest along the way. And btw, I did check and as of Day One ST every 40-man consists solely of the 25 men on the active roster.

I don't believe it...

The AI is absolutely obsessed with keeping the 40-man roster full. One of the things I wish Markus would do is to keep the AI from worrying about who's on the 25 or 40-man roster until it matters. You don't need to maintain a 25-man roster in the winter and only put a player on the 40-man roster if you either need him on the active roster or the Rule 5 draft is approaching and he needs to be protected. Too many people are ending up on waivers because the AI has to remove them from the 40 man roster to add the free agent it just signed....

endgame · 10-01-2006, 11:50 PM

Update:

Opening Day and something is still amiss. A few of the teams did manage to increase their 40-mans to 27-29, but largely because of injuries during ST. A matter of greater concern to me right now is many of the teams are starting opening day with players on the Active Roster with Minor League contracts. I can't explain why this would be, but it shouldn't be the case AFIK. If you're in the Show, your contract should reflect that even with no service times yet established. This isn't good.

Curtis · 10-01-2006, 11:53 PM

Hmm. Well, it looks like you've gotten as far as 'fail again'…

endgame · 10-02-2006, 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curtis Cook

Hmm. Well, it looks like you've gotten as far as 'fail again'…

Well, for a day. Looks like the financials reconciled after opening day concluded. Now everyone on the Active is at league minimum.

Curtis · 10-03-2006, 11:36 PM

Congratulations. Maybe my financial problems will also resolve on opening day.

09-23-2006, 02:31 PM	#1 (permalink)
endgame Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 10,076 Thanked 501x in 286 posts	A Little Financial Guidance Needed I'm looking to rollback my league concept and begin with the once sought-after clean slate, i.e. all the players have no visible history of any playing time with no service time at all. The only remaining option I'd like to have, and will someday I'm sure, is the ability to add age parameters. In any event, the result is that effectively all players become rookie status and will sign for the league minimum in the inaugural draft. Most will retain the auto-renewal status, although I have seen in testing that extensions will be agreed to - I just fail to see the logic in that until the third year, and a few FAs will be signed establishing a minor benchmark of fiscal commitment. This is handled on the front end with roughly a .615 modifier to finances and a slight tweaking on the Star-rated salaries to dial down the uppermost and lowest while leaving the middle primarily intact. What I am now considering is an early implementation of a salary cap, but one based on that 3-year look ahead with the intent to control both the extensions and signings that do occur and the range of those contracts once the real long-term negotiations start to come into play. I'm thinking roughly along the lines of allowing a cap that translates into a maximum active roster salary distribution of players: 3 - Superstar quality at app. 8 mil for 24 milliion 3 - Above avg at app. 5 mil for 15 million 10 Average at app. 3 mil for 30 million 3 - Fair at 1/2 mil for 1.5 million 6 - Below or min at 150,000 If my math's right, that caps at about 72 mil, so I'm considering 75 mil. Thoughts? Troubles ahead? Sound about right? __________________ "Try again. Fail again. Fail better." -- Samuel Beckett _____________________________________________ Last edited by endgame; 09-23-2006 at 02:36 PM.

09-24-2006, 06:05 PM	#3 (permalink)
endgame Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 10,076 Thanked 501x in 286 posts	Well, one thing I found out - at least it looks like this will happen - is that on Mar 02, with all of the team's active rosters expanding to 40 for ST, no one team looks like it will bring anyone besides the 25 man roster to training. In previous runs with this, I recall seeing the same thing, may even have taken the time to post the question then. In any event, most teams have 22-24 players salaried at minimum (as expected) and evidently no plans to evaluate any other talent for pay scales coming into the year. Interesting. I may have to follow suit and not make any adjustments myself. __________________ "Try again. Fail again. Fail better." -- Samuel Beckett _____________________________________________

10-01-2006, 11:50 PM	#11 (permalink)
endgame Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 10,076 Thanked 501x in 286 posts	Update: Opening Day and something is still amiss. A few of the teams did manage to increase their 40-mans to 27-29, but largely because of injuries during ST. A matter of greater concern to me right now is many of the teams are starting opening day with players on the Active Roster with Minor League contracts. I can't explain why this would be, but it shouldn't be the case AFIK. If you're in the Show, your contract should reflect that even with no service times yet established. This isn't good. __________________ "Try again. Fail again. Fail better." -- Samuel Beckett _____________________________________________

10-01-2006, 11:53 PM	#12 (permalink)
Curtis Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Watertown, New York Posts: 4,530 Thanked 108x in 91 posts	Hmm. Well, it looks like you've gotten as far as 'fail again'… __________________ 2012 — The year for Inside The Park 2!

10-03-2006, 11:36 PM	#14 (permalink)
Curtis Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Watertown, New York Posts: 4,530 Thanked 108x in 91 posts	Congratulations. Maybe my financial problems will also resolve on opening day. __________________ 2012 — The year for Inside The Park 2!

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