Too Difficult or Welcome Challenge?

Strick9 · 09-30-2006, 09:12 PM

Just wondering what others opinions were on the actual challenge of the game. I know I've run across a few posts here that griped that the game was too easy without house rules, but I'm not finding that to be the case at all.

I'm just playing as GM of a team from the original 16-team startup leage included with the game, and now in my 13th season of managing the team. Aside from that 1st year (with default rosters and personnel) I've never even had a winning season. I went thru 3 seasons when i actually had the worst record in the league, over 100 losses each year. With this last season I finally feel like I'm pulling myself out of the hole record-wise, though I had to spend quite a bit on a few big-name free agents to get there and I'm probably going to have to retool with prospects to make my next run at the playoffs. Not that I've even made the playoffs, yet. Also my fan interest tanked, and has just been slowly, steadily increasing over the last 3 seasons.

This is playing in Commish mode, but I rarely trade--and even more rarely do those trades involve one I've started myself, over the years there have been several i've accepted from the AI but i found it too easy in commish mode to just force the trade so I really just refrain from starting any. So some may consider that a house rule. Otherwise i'm playing with coaching and scouting on, and full financials, and i'm finding the challenge of the gameplay to be rewarding. I remember playing OOTP4/5 and going thru a span of 23 years were i made the playoffs every year but one.

Anyway, I just wanted to throw this out there and get anybody else's feelings on the challenge, or lack thereof, to OOTP2006. I guess there's always the possibility that I just bite at being a GM, but I'm hoping not.

1998 Yankees · 10-01-2006, 09:28 AM

There are ways to make this game harder, if one feels it's too easy. One of these is to play without being the commissioner, which I am not sure whether it shields you from termination or allows you to force your way back, one or the other. Whichever, I bet it kept you from being fired after three 100-loss seasons! I feel like firing you myself! (j/k

).

I have only had minor league management experience so far, so I cannot comment on the ease or difficulty or managing on the GM level. I do remember my experience with 6.5, however, and 15 "years" of slowly improving my team, from basement to upper division to playoffs (not straight line, but ups and downs) to a championship in the final year. It felt quite satisfying to finally succeed given the effort and time that I put into it. I am hoping that OOTP2006 will provide the same experience.

There are no difficulty levels in OOTP, and eventually anyone who knows the game (real and virtual) and who devotes the required effort and time to it will succeed, especially given the current status of the AI. I see nothing wrong in that; being not too easy nor too hard to win is probably a top priority for all game developers.

Twelvefield · 10-03-2006, 04:16 AM

I was thinking of bringing up this very same question, so I'm glad it's here.

I've made it into the WS once (and lost it), and the playoffs one other time. Otherwise, I'm at best running just below .500 . I find it's difficult to find and keep those big, productive free-agents: either I can't afford them, or they slip away to another team, they get horribly injured, or I lock them into a good long contract which makes their stats fall off the edge of the table. Then, if I get everything lined up just right, the owner pops a head gasket, and I get fired.

It's definitely more challenging than any other OOTPB game, sometimes in good ways, sometimes in not so good ways. If anything, I'm becoming aware (again) that I don't know as much about baseball as I think I do.

Markus Heinsohn · 10-03-2006, 10:23 AM

I am pretty bad at my own game as well... currently in the 7th year of my fictional league, and have made the playoffs just once.

1998 Yankees · 10-03-2006, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

I am pretty bad at my own game as well... currently in the 7th year of my fictional league, and have made the playoffs just once.

Ha! Case closed. Waaaaaay too difficult!

scefalu · 10-03-2006, 11:16 AM

Well, now we know that:

1. Markus doesn't cheat (good to know)
2. There is no formula to beating the game (good for the game)
3. The monster hates its creator (bad for the Transylvanian countryside)

It's nice to see that the game is difficult to master ... otherwise, what would be the point.

1998 Yankees · 10-03-2006, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scefalu

Well, now we know that:

1. Markus doesn't cheat (good to know)
2. There is no formula to beating the game (good for the game)
3. The monster hates its creator (bad for the Transylvanian countryside)

It's nice to see that the game is difficult to master ... otherwise, what would be the point.

Yes, when you do win it's that much more satisfying knowing that you earned it. So don't change things in order to dumb the game down to satisfy the masses.

Cooker · 10-03-2006, 12:13 PM

The game definitely isn't too easy.

I was playing a default fictional league mirroring the present MLB setup. As Cleveland I barely made the playoffs in 2006 but lost in the first round.

In the off-season I signed two blue-chip free agents, a Miguel Tejada-type SS and a 30 yr. old power-hitting RF, somewhat offsetting the loss of a 36 year old power-hitting LF. It looked to me like a net gain. My owner's expectation was that in 2007 I should win it all. I felt the same.

My first regular season game in 2007 I won 13-3. I anticipated a year-long cake-walk. Boy, was I wrong!

By late May 2007 my new RF was on the 60 day DL, my bullpen stunk, and all my offensive firepower inexplicably disappeared. After getting shut out two games in a row (my Tejada-type SS in the midst of a 5 game hitless streak), and with a record that was 11 games under .500, I finally got the dreaded email. Fired. Fired! But honestly, I wasn't surprised. I felt it coming. I'd lost control of my team. They were playing like dead men walking.

My wife (who usually pays little attention to my "baseball boys") didn't understand. "How can your game fire you? It's your game, for goodness' sake!" Indeed. Good question.

So is the game too easy? Nope. I never did this bad in 6.5. I haven't decided if I'll look for another job in that league or just let it die and start a new one. I'm still stunned by my failure to lead a team that seemed destined to dominate the AL Central.

Like TwelveFields, maybe I don't know as much about baseball as I thought.

Cras · 10-03-2006, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cooker

I'm still stunned by my failure to lead a team that seemed destined to dominate the AL Central.

I am sure that is exactly what Ozzie Guillien is thinking right about now.

eriqjaffe · 10-03-2006, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cras

I am sure that is exactly what Ozzie Guillien is thinking right about now.

Yeah, but Ozzie still has his job.

Twelvefield · 10-03-2006, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

I am pretty bad at my own game as well... currently in the 7th year of my fictional league, and have made the playoffs just once.

Humour flag is UP

I have it on an unimpeachable authority that you can "cheat" to win OOTPB by changing all of your players' names to "Markus Heinsohn". It's some kind of undocumented Easter Egg. Apparently, there's some code left over from Inside The Park Baseball, where Markus automatically gets this special rocket-powered bat that actually trails real flames behind it on every swing. I sure would love to see a picture of that, though, it's too bad OOTPB is only a text sim, and doesn't have EA-style graphics.

Humour flag is DOWN

... or maybe Markus and everyone else is tired of that "'Markus' is an Easter Egg" joke...?

CardinalsFan · 10-03-2006, 02:24 PM

in my league my team has been above .500 all 5 years. won the pennant in the first year, only to be unceremoniously trounced in the playoffs, then its been one team dominance since then with 4 in a row for the boston squad. even this past sim year my team went 100-62 (my best record in ootp 2006) only to not make the playoffs as boston went 103-59, they then proceeded to win their 4th straight world title (all over philly who is the dominance in the other league).

it is harder than v6. v6 i had 19 straight division titles and in one year went 129-33, lugnut nation ruled!

1998 Yankees · 10-03-2006, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cooker

My wife . . . didn't understand.

That, my friend, is universal. Mine threw up her hands in disgust when I told her that there was no animation, no pitching, batting, fielding, throwing, or running to do or to watch. The only action is to click that little baseball on the bottom and watch the numbers change. "What? This is even worse then the games you used to play! At least those were interesting to watch sometimes. Jeez, I could drop dead and you wouldn't find me unless it was on your way to the bathroom or the refrigerator!"

Erik W. · 10-03-2006, 06:09 PM

I like the challenge level. Some things could be made easier, like bringing back the "shop player" feature, but overall it feels mostly right.

Cras · 10-03-2006, 06:22 PM

It is far from being too easy, and I would not call it too hard, as steady success is achievable if you are diligent in your scouting (and a bit of luck).

That must make it just right.

Strick9 · 10-03-2006, 08:21 PM

So, maybe i'm not as bad a GM as i thought

Thanks for all the responses, guys. It's great to know others are enjoying the challenge, too. Winning is fun. Winning all the time gets boring after a while. Well, unless it's winning the lottery or something.

Cras · 10-03-2006, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strick9

Winning all the time gets boring after a while.

Couldn't agree more. In 6.5 I made it a rule to blow the team up if I won the Series four years in a row. I liked the challenge of building a winner, and found the job of maintaining a winner quite the snooze fest.

lynchjm24 · 10-03-2006, 09:46 PM

I don't know what game some of you guys are playing, but my team dominates so badly in fictional play that I don't even bother to replace players who are injured for months at a time.

Cras · 10-03-2006, 09:55 PM

One of my house rules is to focus heavily on developing my own talent and only resign them if they are legendary or they sign for an amount I deem reasonable, even though I have plenty of cash to sign them all to huge deals and still have some left over for champagne.

Maybe that curbs my success to a more satisfactory level.

Curtis · 10-03-2006, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eriqjaffe

Yeah, but Ozzie still has his job.

He shouldn't, after he tanked the final game to throw the division championship to Minnesota and sacrifice the Tigers on the altar to Steinbrenner.

Oh, was I off-topic? Sorry…

09-30-2006, 09:12 PM	#1 (permalink)
Strick9 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Nashville Posts: 59	Too Difficult or Welcome Challenge? Just wondering what others opinions were on the actual challenge of the game. I know I've run across a few posts here that griped that the game was too easy without house rules, but I'm not finding that to be the case at all. I'm just playing as GM of a team from the original 16-team startup leage included with the game, and now in my 13th season of managing the team. Aside from that 1st year (with default rosters and personnel) I've never even had a winning season. I went thru 3 seasons when i actually had the worst record in the league, over 100 losses each year. With this last season I finally feel like I'm pulling myself out of the hole record-wise, though I had to spend quite a bit on a few big-name free agents to get there and I'm probably going to have to retool with prospects to make my next run at the playoffs. Not that I've even made the playoffs, yet. Also my fan interest tanked, and has just been slowly, steadily increasing over the last 3 seasons. This is playing in Commish mode, but I rarely trade--and even more rarely do those trades involve one I've started myself, over the years there have been several i've accepted from the AI but i found it too easy in commish mode to just force the trade so I really just refrain from starting any. So some may consider that a house rule. Otherwise i'm playing with coaching and scouting on, and full financials, and i'm finding the challenge of the gameplay to be rewarding. I remember playing OOTP4/5 and going thru a span of 23 years were i made the playoffs every year but one. Anyway, I just wanted to throw this out there and get anybody else's feelings on the challenge, or lack thereof, to OOTP2006. I guess there's always the possibility that I just bite at being a GM, but I'm hoping not.

10-03-2006, 04:16 AM	#3 (permalink)
Twelvefield All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,186	I was thinking of bringing up this very same question, so I'm glad it's here. I've made it into the WS once (and lost it), and the playoffs one other time. Otherwise, I'm at best running just below .500 . I find it's difficult to find and keep those big, productive free-agents: either I can't afford them, or they slip away to another team, they get horribly injured, or I lock them into a good long contract which makes their stats fall off the edge of the table. Then, if I get everything lined up just right, the owner pops a head gasket, and I get fired. It's definitely more challenging than any other OOTPB game, sometimes in good ways, sometimes in not so good ways. If anything, I'm becoming aware (again) that I don't know as much about baseball as I think I do. Last edited by Twelvefield : 10-03-2006 at 04:24 AM.

10-03-2006, 11:16 AM	#6 (permalink)
scefalu Major Leagues Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 343	Well, now we know that: 1. Markus doesn't cheat (good to know) 2. There is no formula to beating the game (good for the game) 3. The monster hates its creator (bad for the Transylvanian countryside) It's nice to see that the game is difficult to master ... otherwise, what would be the point. __________________ Shawn

10-03-2006, 06:09 PM	#14 (permalink)
Erik W. Moderator* Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Montréal Posts: 3,690	I like the challenge level. Some things could be made easier, like bringing back the "shop player" feature, but overall it feels mostly right. __________________ Formerly known as Azamien

10-03-2006, 06:22 PM	#15 (permalink)
Cras Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 2,574	It is far from being too easy, and I would not call it too hard, as steady success is achievable if you are diligent in your scouting (and a bit of luck). That must make it just right. __________________ The Greatest Chicago Baseball Clubs Ever 1.) 2005 Chicago White Sox 2.) 1919 Chicago White Sox 3.) 1917 Chicago White Sox 4.) 1959 Chicago White Sox 5.) 1994 Chicago White Sox www.one.org

10-01-2006, 09:28 AM	#2 (permalink)
1998 Yankees Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Yankee Stadium Posts: 5,998	There are ways to make this game harder, if one feels it's too easy. One of these is to play without being the commissioner, which I am not sure whether it shields you from termination or allows you to force your way back, one or the other. Whichever, I bet it kept you from being fired after three 100-loss seasons! I feel like firing you myself! (j/k ). I have only had minor league management experience so far, so I cannot comment on the ease or difficulty or managing on the GM level. I do remember my experience with 6.5, however, and 15 "years" of slowly improving my team, from basement to upper division to playoffs (not straight line, but ups and downs) to a championship in the final year. It felt quite satisfying to finally succeed given the effort and time that I put into it. I am hoping that OOTP2006 will provide the same experience. There are no difficulty levels in OOTP, and eventually anyone who knows the game (real and virtual) and who devotes the required effort and time to it will succeed, especially given the current status of the AI. I see nothing wrong in that; being not too easy nor too hard to win is probably a top priority for all game developers.

10-03-2006, 10:23 AM	#4 (permalink)
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Heinbockel, Germany Posts: 9,421	I am pretty bad at my own game as well... currently in the 7th year of my fictional league, and have made the playoffs just once.

10-03-2006, 12:13 PM	#8 (permalink)
Cooker All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 592	The game definitely isn't too easy. I was playing a default fictional league mirroring the present MLB setup. As Cleveland I barely made the playoffs in 2006 but lost in the first round. In the off-season I signed two blue-chip free agents, a Miguel Tejada-type SS and a 30 yr. old power-hitting RF, somewhat offsetting the loss of a 36 year old power-hitting LF. It looked to me like a net gain. My owner's expectation was that in 2007 I should win it all. I felt the same. My first regular season game in 2007 I won 13-3. I anticipated a year-long cake-walk. Boy, was I wrong! By late May 2007 my new RF was on the 60 day DL, my bullpen stunk, and all my offensive firepower inexplicably disappeared. After getting shut out two games in a row (my Tejada-type SS in the midst of a 5 game hitless streak), and with a record that was 11 games under .500, I finally got the dreaded email. Fired. Fired! But honestly, I wasn't surprised. I felt it coming. I'd lost control of my team. They were playing like dead men walking. My wife (who usually pays little attention to my "baseball boys") didn't understand. "How can your game fire you? It's your game, for goodness' sake!" Indeed. Good question. So is the game too easy? Nope. I never did this bad in 6.5. I haven't decided if I'll look for another job in that league or just let it die and start a new one. I'm still stunned by my failure to lead a team that seemed destined to dominate the AL Central. Like TwelveFields, maybe I don't know as much about baseball as I thought.

10-03-2006, 02:24 PM	#12 (permalink)
CardinalsFan Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 154	in my league my team has been above .500 all 5 years. won the pennant in the first year, only to be unceremoniously trounced in the playoffs, then its been one team dominance since then with 4 in a row for the boston squad. even this past sim year my team went 100-62 (my best record in ootp 2006) only to not make the playoffs as boston went 103-59, they then proceeded to win their 4th straight world title (all over philly who is the dominance in the other league). it is harder than v6. v6 i had 19 straight division titles and in one year went 129-33, lugnut nation ruled!

10-03-2006, 08:21 PM	#16 (permalink)
Strick9 Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Nashville Posts: 59	So, maybe i'm not as bad a GM as i thought Thanks for all the responses, guys. It's great to know others are enjoying the challenge, too. Winning is fun. Winning all the time gets boring after a while. Well, unless it's winning the lottery or something.

10-03-2006, 09:46 PM	#18 (permalink)
lynchjm24 All Star Reserve Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hartford Posts: 888 Warnings: 1	I don't know what game some of you guys are playing, but my team dominates so badly in fictional play that I don't even bother to replace players who are injured for months at a time.

10-03-2006, 09:55 PM	#19 (permalink)
Cras Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 2,574	One of my house rules is to focus heavily on developing my own talent and only resign them if they are legendary or they sign for an amount I deem reasonable, even though I have plenty of cash to sign them all to huge deals and still have some left over for champagne. Maybe that curbs my success to a more satisfactory level. __________________ The Greatest Chicago Baseball Clubs Ever 1.) 2005 Chicago White Sox 2.) 1919 Chicago White Sox 3.) 1917 Chicago White Sox 4.) 1959 Chicago White Sox 5.) 1994 Chicago White Sox www.one.org

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