Complexity. - Page 2

Solonor · 02-01-2007, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

1600 * 1200 example (you can see the entire organization, including 40-man roster, DL and waivers):

Well... "entire organization" if you only have one minor league team at each level...

Markus Heinsohn · 02-01-2007, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solonor

Well... "entire organization" if you only have one minor league team at each level...

Sure, but you can have 7 minor league teams on that screen, along with the active roster and 40 man roster, which is enough for a MLB setup.

enuttage · 02-01-2007, 11:04 AM

Thanks, Markus. And, lol @ phenom.

Assos · 02-01-2007, 11:59 AM

Quite amazing!

chimanbj · 02-01-2007, 01:28 PM

Stars? They're back? Did I miss that somewhere?

silvam14 · 02-01-2007, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chimanbj

Stars? They're back? Did I miss that somewhere?

Here

Stars are back!

waltwa · 02-01-2007, 01:36 PM

Only time will tell if the game is too complex. It is a concern tho that there is a 300 page guide because that does indicate complexity but i will wait to play the game before i judge it. I am concerned tho, because i have not seen it addressed, about getting started in the game. I thought it was very difficult to start the game in terms of hiring a manager and determining what mode the game was to be played in. I don't really want to read directions on many things i would like for them to be obvious particularly in the opening stages of the game.

chimanbj · 02-01-2007, 01:39 PM

Baseball, as a business, is a lot more than the game. When you introduce financials, and organizational issues, it complicates things incredibly. Baseball is not as easy as it was when we were 6 or 7 years old...

silvam14 · 02-01-2007, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waltwa

Only time will tell if the game is too complex. It is a concern tho that there is a 300 page guide because that does indicate complexity but i will wait to play the game before i judge it. I am concerned tho, because i have not seen it addressed, about getting started in the game. I thought it was very difficult to start the game in terms of hiring a manager and determining what mode the game was to be played in. I don't really want to read directions on many things i would like for them to be obvious particularly in the opening stages of the game.

I thought I read that there will be a league creation wizard. Right there in the feature list

yep,

Improved interface and usability

OOTP Baseball 2007 features some great user interface improvements that make the game easier and more enjoyable, including: a league creation wizard, a simplified navigation model with intuitive icons, a detailed in-game help system, improved in-game screens, and manager and online league commissioner “portals” that centralize the most commonly-used tasks.

battists · 02-01-2007, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waltwa

Only time will tell if the game is too complex. It is a concern tho that there is a 300 page guide because that does indicate complexity

This is such a double-edged sword, waltwa. OOTP had been criticized for NOT having a manual, and many games are often criticized for being pathetically incomplete. I don't think a long manual necessarily indicates complexity in a negative sense. Of those 300 pages, probably at least half of them are taken up with screenshots.

A large part of the complexity in a game like OOTP isn't the game engine, it's the sheer number of options. If you have 10 options, the manual must describe them all, even if you only turn on one of those options in your league. So, a manual is a superset of all the game's complexities. It's not that you have to read a 300-page manual in order to enjoy the game. That's even more true this year, with in-game help, league creation wizards, and upcoming video tutorials.

There's no question, though, that this isn't Tetris. This is a very detailed simulation game, so it's definitely complex. I think it's taking steps in the right direction, though.

waltwa · 02-01-2007, 02:46 PM

no question that the 300 page guide is a good thing to have but just by its size alone it can be worrisome. However the bottom line is i am going to buy the game and then i will see for myself if it is unnecessarily or too complex to enjoy. The odds are that it won't be too complex because of the 7 editions only 1 has been overly complex.

1998 Yankees · 02-01-2007, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by battists

It's not that you have to read a 300-page manual in order to enjoy the game.

That's the key, I think. Finding a balance between or, better, providing the capability for both the complexity required for enthusiast immersion and the ease of use for casual enjoyment. Me, I found my enjoyment of OOTPB 2006 had increased substantially just by reading the entire manual and discovering things that I did not know about previously that I could get into and explore.

sfgiants88 · 02-02-2007, 04:35 AM

Quote:

1600 * 1200 example (you can see the entire organization, including 40-man roster, DL and waivers):

Awesome. This is one of the things I suggested and was looking for in the new release. Thank you.

02-01-2007, 11:04 AM	#23 (permalink)
enuttage Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Balcones Fault Line Posts: 2,267 Thanks: 6 Thanked 0x in 0 posts	Thanks, Markus. And, lol @ phenom. __________________ The former GM of the WHBL Managua Four Roses "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."

02-01-2007, 01:28 PM	#25 (permalink)
chimanbj All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 758 Thanks: 4 Thanked 2x in 2 posts	Stars? They're back? Did I miss that somewhere? __________________ People ask if I'm a Cubs or White Sox fan...I tell them, proudly, I'm a Phillies Phan!

02-01-2007, 01:39 PM	#28 (permalink)
chimanbj All Star Reserve Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 758 Thanks: 4 Thanked 2x in 2 posts	Baseball, as a business, is a lot more than the game. When you introduce financials, and organizational issues, it complicates things incredibly. Baseball is not as easy as it was when we were 6 or 7 years old... __________________ People ask if I'm a Cubs or White Sox fan...I tell them, proudly, I'm a Phillies Phan!

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02-01-2007, 11:59 AM	#24 (permalink)
Assos All Star Reserve Join Date: May 2004 Location: Just on the fair side of the foul pole! Posts: 742 Thanks: 23 Thanked 8x in 8 posts	Quite amazing!

02-01-2007, 01:36 PM	#27 (permalink)
waltwa All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 636 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6x in 5 posts	Only time will tell if the game is too complex. It is a concern tho that there is a 300 page guide because that does indicate complexity but i will wait to play the game before i judge it. I am concerned tho, because i have not seen it addressed, about getting started in the game. I thought it was very difficult to start the game in terms of hiring a manager and determining what mode the game was to be played in. I don't really want to read directions on many things i would like for them to be obvious particularly in the opening stages of the game.

02-01-2007, 02:46 PM	#31 (permalink)
waltwa All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 636 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6x in 5 posts	no question that the 300 page guide is a good thing to have but just by its size alone it can be worrisome. However the bottom line is i am going to buy the game and then i will see for myself if it is unnecessarily or too complex to enjoy. The odds are that it won't be too complex because of the 7 editions only 1 has been overly complex.