Database issues with new 2007

Gambo · 02-05-2007, 05:33 PM

I've been mulling over this for a couple of days and have contemplated on whether or not to try to do a new database that would reconcile with the new methods for OOTP 2007.

First of all I love the option for importing by season for historical leagues but there are some limitations to it.

I was debating on whether it would be possible to still do a database that
imports players by their first pro season instead of by their 1st major league season. In all honesty I dont think that would be possible. In my opinion the new version makes most of the communities Career average DBs incompatable with the season by season reimportation of statistics.

For example in my database players tend to import at higher abilities across the board. That works fine as long as all players are in sync. Once the game however, imports by season the new statistics would all be lower (by scale) and therefore I think (without testing) that minor leaguers who have yet to make their real debut would be promoted much to early because they are better rated.

This would most likely be the case with any 3rd person database due to their development. Of course using the databases would work fine as long as you do not use the option but I'd really like to have some option such as at least having players automatically import at a certain age (18 or so) for draft purposes with ratings back figured according to their career averages. In this way minor leagues with ghost players would still be useful.

For example the game would import Tony Gwynn at 18 in 1979 for the draft with appropriate ratings for that age, though his debut was in 1982 at age 22.

Does anybody have any thoughts on this?

Bluenoser · 02-05-2007, 05:50 PM

Not trying to be negative, but how is Markus supposed to code the game to suit each different 3rd party DB? There are quite a few out there now and each is unique in it's own way. More are always being created.

Personally I'm happy with the way it works now. It is designed to use the Lahman DB. Any 3rd party DB is, well, take your chances that it will work the way you want it to. I mean after all, we can't expect to have changes made to the game everytime someone releases a new DB can we?

jarmenia · 02-05-2007, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gambo

In my opinion the new version makes most of the communities Career average DBs incompatable with the season by season reimportation of statistics.

I don't believe any of the old import ways were taken out. Just new ones added but one of the historical testers can let you know for sure.

Tiger Fan · 02-05-2007, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gambo

I was debating on whether it would be possible to still do a database that
imports players by their first pro season instead of by their 1st major league season. In all honesty I dont think that would be possible. In my opinion the new version makes most of the communities Career average DBs incompatable with the season by season reimportation of statistics.

Does anybody have any thoughts on this?

Yes, I have one. I believe you are incorrect in your assumption that they would not be compatiable. Remember the season by season reimportation of stats (or Recalculate yearly mode) is an option. You can also use the standard career development method of importing players similiar to what was done in previous versions of OOTP (or as we testers have been calling it Classic Mode).

I can't tell you for sure that a database you create would definately work in the game but there has been some testing done with 3rd party databases and they seem to be working fine.

Tiger Fan · 02-05-2007, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarmenia

I don't believe any of the old import ways were taken out. Just new ones added but one of the historical testers can let you know for sure.

That is correct.

Gambo · 02-05-2007, 06:37 PM

Hey I love the new option to promote realism! That is the goal isn't it!

I fully understand that there is really no changes that need to be made to the 3rd party databases in order for them to work. They still remain an alternative option as long as you want to use the "classic mode" of player development. Also, i'm not asking Markus to code anything for "3rd party" people.

Let me rephrase to clarify...
The game has essentially two options now 1)classic player development 2)year by year rating adjustments. Style 1 "Classic" is still perfectly fine for using 3rd party DBs and such. I understand that and really have no questions or concerns as the use of these is still okay.

Style two and the creation of a 3rd party DB for use with this method is the question. I would like to give players the option of using a database that imports players at the time of their pro debut instead of major league debut and still have the ability to use the new development mode...

The issues that come up which I believe makes this nearly impossible are...
1)an ideal database would import initially all possible players (age 18-40) with according ratings ----> problem = the years they did not play in the majors would have to be blank so the game would override with 'classic development'
2)each year players would import according to their pro debut---->problem = not really much except creating the debut stat lines for the players which can be done.

Essentially the need would be for two databases combined into one... one for initial import and one for year by year.

I'm just running this around in my head and contemplating the options...

Curtis · 02-05-2007, 08:39 PM

This would be a lot more work for the people who create custom data bases, but what if you just leave the years from ML debut to retirement 'as is' and add 'front loaded' years for their minor league careers? I suppose you might run into copyright or trademark problems with whoever compiles the Lahman database.

I was just reading about how some minor leaguers back in the teens and twenties could have played in the majors five years earlier than they did, but the minor teams that owned their contracts refused to sell them to major clubs. Wouldn't you like an extra five years of Lefty Grove in your universe?

02-05-2007, 05:33 PM	#1 (permalink)
Gambo All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,659 Thanks: 26 Thanked 426x in 221 posts	Database issues with new 2007 I've been mulling over this for a couple of days and have contemplated on whether or not to try to do a new database that would reconcile with the new methods for OOTP 2007. First of all I love the option for importing by season for historical leagues but there are some limitations to it. I was debating on whether it would be possible to still do a database that imports players by their first pro season instead of by their 1st major league season. In all honesty I dont think that would be possible. In my opinion the new version makes most of the communities Career average DBs incompatable with the season by season reimportation of statistics. For example in my database players tend to import at higher abilities across the board. That works fine as long as all players are in sync. Once the game however, imports by season the new statistics would all be lower (by scale) and therefore I think (without testing) that minor leaguers who have yet to make their real debut would be promoted much to early because they are better rated. This would most likely be the case with any 3rd person database due to their development. Of course using the databases would work fine as long as you do not use the option but I'd really like to have some option such as at least having players automatically import at a certain age (18 or so) for draft purposes with ratings back figured according to their career averages. In this way minor leagues with ghost players would still be useful. For example the game would import Tony Gwynn at 18 in 1979 for the draft with appropriate ratings for that age, though his debut was in 1982 at age 22. Does anybody have any thoughts on this?

02-05-2007, 05:50 PM	#2 (permalink)
Bluenoser Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 5,602 Thanks: 56 Thanked 442x in 307 posts	Not trying to be negative, but how is Markus supposed to code the game to suit each different 3rd party DB? There are quite a few out there now and each is unique in it's own way. More are always being created. Personally I'm happy with the way it works now. It is designed to use the Lahman DB. Any 3rd party DB is, well, take your chances that it will work the way you want it to. I mean after all, we can't expect to have changes made to the game everytime someone releases a new DB can we? __________________ It takes neither courage nor intelligence to cheer for a team only when that team wins. The true test of a fan's mettle is the same as it is for a player: Were you there when you were needed?

02-05-2007, 08:39 PM	#7 (permalink)
Curtis Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Watertown, New York Posts: 4,530 Thanks: 1 Thanked 108x in 91 posts	This would be a lot more work for the people who create custom data bases, but what if you just leave the years from ML debut to retirement 'as is' and add 'front loaded' years for their minor league careers? I suppose you might run into copyright or trademark problems with whoever compiles the Lahman database. I was just reading about how some minor leaguers back in the teens and twenties could have played in the majors five years earlier than they did, but the minor teams that owned their contracts refused to sell them to major clubs. Wouldn't you like an extra five years of Lefty Grove in your universe? __________________ 2012 — The year for Inside The Park 2!

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02-05-2007, 06:37 PM	#6 (permalink)
Gambo All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,659 Thanks: 26 Thanked 426x in 221 posts	Hey I love the new option to promote realism! That is the goal isn't it! I fully understand that there is really no changes that need to be made to the 3rd party databases in order for them to work. They still remain an alternative option as long as you want to use the "classic mode" of player development. Also, i'm not asking Markus to code anything for "3rd party" people. Let me rephrase to clarify... The game has essentially two options now 1)classic player development 2)year by year rating adjustments. Style 1 "Classic" is still perfectly fine for using 3rd party DBs and such. I understand that and really have no questions or concerns as the use of these is still okay. Style two and the creation of a 3rd party DB for use with this method is the question. I would like to give players the option of using a database that imports players at the time of their pro debut instead of major league debut and still have the ability to use the new development mode... The issues that come up which I believe makes this nearly impossible are... 1)an ideal database would import initially all possible players (age 18-40) with according ratings ----> problem = the years they did not play in the majors would have to be blank so the game would override with 'classic development' 2)each year players would import according to their pro debut---->problem = not really much except creating the debut stat lines for the players which can be done. Essentially the need would be for two databases combined into one... one for initial import and one for year by year. I'm just running this around in my head and contemplating the options...