Injuries in OOTP

[injury log]

I've been experimenting with modifications to injuries.txt, hoping to produce an injuries database that more closely models modern-day MLB. I've run into a few difficulties, and I'm hoping someone can help-

-are there injuries that occur in real life which aren't in the current database? I've included off-field incidents- steroid suspensions, dui arrests, etc- but haven't looked into on-field injuries;

-how exactly are diagnoses and descriptions linked? It seems if I create a new injury which is linked to a particular description in injuries.txt, the diagnosis actually ends up being used for other descriptions as well. So I end up with situations like 'Player X was injured in a car accident. Diagnosis: Suspension for corked bat'. This also seems to happen with on-field injuries;

-is there any way to control the frequency of individual injuries? I want to include suspensions for corking bats and doctoring baseballs, but if I use these as short-term injuries that happen during a pitch, they occur far too often- they become as likely as any other mild in-pitch injury;

-is there any reason why some entries in the original injuries.txt file have an extra comma at the end, and should it matter?

-does anyone know what happens to injuries.txt after game creation? The customization guide mentions an injuries.dat file, but no such file exists.

Any help or suggestions appreciated!

[Tony M]

I have found an injuries.dat, but it was from Rolen's OOTP 2006 set, and it doesn't match the structure of the injuries.txt file.

And if you click help after it claims to have reimported the injuries.txt you get sent to a completely different help page (think it was to do with releasing a player)

[injury log]

Yes, as I understand an injuries.dat file was generated on game creation in OOTP 2006, but doesn't seem to exist as a separate file in '07. Apparently the format of injuries.txt was changed slightly from '06 as well- it may be that one entry was added per line- or at least that's what I read in a thread in the Mods forum.

[Zeyes]

Speculation follows...

Originally Posted by injury log

-how exactly are diagnoses and descriptions linked? It seems if I create a new injury which is linked to a particular description in injuries.txt, the diagnosis actually ends up being used for other descriptions as well. So I end up with situations like 'Player X was injured in a car accident. Diagnosis: Suspension for corked bat'. This also seems to happen with on-field injuries;

As far as I can tell from the files, the link is only via the four injury type booleans: pitch/throw, run/slide, collision, HBP/fight. I don't think you're able to define additional booleans, so I think one way to set up suspensions etc. is to have them like the txt file's "undisclosed injury" with all four booleans set to 0, and then have suspension-causing incidents as off-field injuries rather than on-field. Maybe as something like "was caught breaking the rules of the game" -> "suspension for doctoring/corking etc.".

You'd probably have to remove all the other off-field injuries that are currently set to type 6 (undisclosed), or reassign them to one of the other injury types. Alternatively...

Originally Posted by injury log

-is there any way to control the frequency of individual injuries? I want to include suspensions for corking bats and doctoring baseballs, but if I use these as short-term injuries that happen during a pitch, they occur far too often- they become as likely as any other mild in-pitch injury;

If there's an equally random chance for any "pitching/throwing" injury to occur, you could try repeating the lines for all non-suspension injuries in the file so that the suspensions make up a smaller share of the entries. Still, as mentioned above that will still allow off-field injuries that are set to pitch/throw (like playing golf) to result in suspensions, so you'd have to reassign/delete those.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by injury log

Yes, as I understand an injuries.dat file was generated on game creation in OOTP 2006, but doesn't seem to exist as a separate file in '07. Apparently the format of injuries.txt was changed slightly from '06 as well- it may be that one entry was added per line- or at least that's what I read in a thread in the Mods forum.

This is aggravating. I was all set to do that injury.dat file switcheroo that worked well last year: Edit injury text files, create a new game, take new injury.dat file and copy it into the old game. No can do, now! Can't re-import injury data because of a TT issue, either.

injury log, thanks for the tips in that other thread, especially "Duplicating off-field injuries in the text file is the best way to control the relative frequency of different injury types." Will try that, along with making most of them not serious injuries, but that does not do my current game any good. I am hoping that the next patch (of which there has been recent mention) will have the re-import feature fixed.

[injury log]

I should point out that the re-import half works; while it doesn't erase the injuries from the previous database, it does add in the new ones from the file you import. I'm not sure if re-importing has any effect on overall injury frequency, but I would be surprised if it did, so you could probably use the re-import to dilute the pool of serious off-field injuries, if that's your goal. I'll check into this- I'm planning to run a few more tests so I can really figure things out, and I'll post results. I'll also investigate how the game handles exact duplicate lines in the .txt file; it may ignore them (I've always used slightly different text for each line, just in case). I also expect there's a workaround for the re-import bug; there must be a maximum number of injuries that can be stored in the database, so if you re-import with a long enough injury list, you can probably force the old ones out.

Zeyes, a belated thanks for your helpful suggestions- I think I can get what I want by removing entire categories of injury from the off-field file.

I still have two questions, if anyone can help-

-does anyone know where the injuries go, since the injury.dat file doesn't seem to exist?

-does anyone have suggestions for injuries missing from OOTP that would belong in a realistic modern-day injury database? Halladay reminded me of appendectomies... The intention had been to produce an injury file for optional use with Cubbyfan's roster set, but this is predicated on a fix of the re-import function...

[1998 Yankees]

Just thinking out loud, and seeing if you have a comment about the procedure. Following what Zeyes said about linking the two injury files through the booleans, I notice that the off field injuries file has no linkage to the illness boolean. I am guessing that is probably because none of the illnesses in injuries.txt are serious enough to warrant mention during the off-season; the only ones that I see with a 1 for that boolean are migraine, cold, bronchitis, strep throat, flu.

Pursuant to your suggestion for introducing more serious off-season illnesses like appendicitis, I am thinking of introducing another section of illness triggers in off_field_injuries.txt with the number 5 leading off each entry; I think this will refer to illnesses in injuries.txt. Then, I would need some serious illnesses under that boolean in that file; I will wait to see if you get any response to your request for suggestions.

By the way, do you (or anyone) know what happens with off-season injury type 6, undisclosed? Is that just randomly linked to one boolean or another in injuries.txt? There is an undisclosed injury in that file as well, but it's all zeroes so I don't think that would do anything.

[Zeyes]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

By the way, do you (or anyone) know what happens with off-season injury type 6, undisclosed? Is that just randomly linked to one boolean or another in injuries.txt? There is an undisclosed injury in that file as well, but it's all zeroes so I don't think that would do anything.

I think the idea behind that one is that you can have really freaky off-field events whose physical effects don't necessarily fall into any of the five standard injury/illness classifications, e.g.

"was abducted by aliens" -> "suffered an undisclosed injury", rather than "was abducted by aliens" -> "suffered a hyperextended elbow"

That said, I have no idea how/whether that's currently handled by the game, since those zeros in the undisclosed injury line do look odd.

[injury log]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

By the way, do you (or anyone) know what happens with off-season injury type 6, undisclosed? Is that just randomly linked to one boolean or another in injuries.txt? There is an undisclosed injury in that file as well, but it's all zeroes so I don't think that would do anything.

That seemingly innocuous line of zeroes is actually crucially important. The type numbers (1-6) of off-field injuries are associated with body part codes in injuries.txt (except Type 5, which is linked to the illness Boolean). When an off-field injury is generated, the game selects a suitable diagnosis from injuries.txt. Type 6 in off-field (undisclosed) is linked only with the Code 0 injury in injuries.txt; if you delete this line from injuries.txt, the game doesn't find a suitable diagnosis, and pretends no injury happened, and you will never see a Type 6 off-field injury. I thought the same, in fact, and erased the undisclosed,0,0.... line, and discovered after 18 sim years that none of my off-field suspensions were happening.

I'll get back to the first part of your question later- must make roster moves, my closer just got injured for the season!

[Zeyes]

It looks like undisclosed injuries can take on pretty much any length. In my 15-year sim, 148 players (out of about 15,000) suffered one of them, and here are the observed duration frequencies as per the player history files:

 8   3 days
 8   4 days
 9   5 days
10   6 days
24   1 week
17   1-2 weeks
35   2 weeks
 2   2-3 weeks
12   3 weeks
 6   4 weeks
 2   5 weeks
 1   8 weeks
 1   8-9 weeks
 2   2 months
 3   2-3 months
 1   3 months
 1   4 months
 2   7 months
 2   8 months
 2   13 months

[injury log]

Originally Posted by Zeyes

I think the idea behind that one is that you can have really freaky off-field events whose physical effects don't necessarily fall into any of the five standard injury/illness classifications, e.g.

"was abducted by aliens" -> "suffered an undisclosed injury", rather than "was abducted by aliens" -> "suffered a hyperextended elbow"

That said, I have no idea how/whether that's currently handled by the game, since those zeros in the undisclosed injury line do look odd.

Most of the 0s make sense, since they're Boolean (undisclosed injuries can't happen while throwing, running, etc, are never career or season-ending, and never day-to-day). It's the first two, for min and max injury time, that are bizarre. I assume they're just placeholders, and the game engine generates an injury duration at random, but that's just a guess. This line in injuries.txt certainly produces in-game injuries of non-zero duration, but I'm not sure that I've ever seen a particularly long undisclosed injury. Will test!

[EDIT- Thanks Zeyes, I guess they can be of long duration. I'd think then that it's random, but within the same distribution the game ordinarily uses for injury severity. Surprising to see what must be season-ending undisclosed injuries in your results, given that the Boolean is set to 0...]

I'm curious how undisclosed injuries affect ratings. I've assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that body part codes are linked with certain sets of ratings (so leg injuries might affect speed, while arm injuries would not). If that's the case, I wonder what effect, if any, an undisclosed injury has.

[1998 Yankees]

This supports what you guys are saying. Basically, type 6 undisclosed off-season events just result in down time of random length as Zeyes showed. But, this begs the question that injury log brought up; would these non-specific injuries ever affect ratings, or are they just "time off"?

This has been a very interesting discussion. Thanks, guys.

[Zeyes]

Originally Posted by injury log

Surprising to see what must be season-ending undisclosed injuries in your results, given that the Boolean is set to 0...]

Yes, I was wondering about that, too...the 6+ months ones certainly look like season-ending injuries under normal circumstances. Maybe it's the lack of a defined maximum duration that causes it?

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by Zeyes

Yes, I was wondering about that, too...the 6+ months ones certainly look like season-ending injuries under normal circumstances. Maybe it's the lack of a defined maximum duration that causes it?

Maybe the zeros in the undisclosed injury entry in injuries.txt are just placeholders, and the undisclosed injury events in off_field_injuries.txt just generate a random amount of time off by design.

[Zeyes]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

Maybe the zeros in the undisclosed injury entry in injuries.txt are just placeholders, and the undisclosed injury events in off_field_injuries.txt just generate a random amount of time off by design.

That's also a possibility, but I would doubt it... Anyway, somebody'd just have to create additional type 6 entries in injuries.dat with defined injury durations, and we'd know for sure. Hint, hint.

Edit: Hmm, now that I've written that...does anyone know exactly which settings "connect" an injury line to the type 6 off-field events? I see two possibilities...Body Part Code = 0, or all five injury type booleans = 0.

[injury log]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

Just thinking out loud, and seeing if you have a comment about the procedure. Following what Zeyes said about linking the two injury files through the booleans, I notice that the off field injuries file has no linkage to the illness boolean. I am guessing that is probably because none of the illnesses in injuries.txt are serious enough to warrant mention during the off-season; the only ones that I see with a 1 for that boolean are migraine, cold, bronchitis, strep throat, flu.

Pursuant to your suggestion for introducing more serious off-season illnesses like appendicitis, I am thinking of introducing another section of illness triggers in off_field_injuries.txt with the number 5 leading off each entry; I think this will refer to illnesses in injuries.txt. Then, I would need some serious illnesses under that boolean in that file; I will wait to see if you get any response to your request for suggestions.

Type 5 off-field injuries do work as you'd expect, so you can create off-field illness-type injuries. If you want them to have a chance to be serious, you will need, as you suggest, to insert some serious illnesses in injuries.txt as well. There are a couple of issues. There is no way to force an off-field injury to be serious (it's either 'mild' or 'doesn't matter'), so you can't easily create a serious off-field illness. I've tried creating suspensions in this way, and often end up with players who are Day-to-Day for 6 days with a Steroids Suspension, which is a bit absurd. The game will also only rarely generate a serious illness from injuries.txt. I added six (although the number shouldn't matter) serious illnesses to injuries.txt, ranging in severity from 25-150 days, and over 18 years of simming, this produced a total of 70 serious illnesses in a 210 team universe (Majors/Minors template). That is, I'd only get about one serious illness in the Majors every two years. In addition, I'd have a few serious illnesses that originated from the off-field database, but these were even less common. Long story short, I've had trouble getting the results I'm looking for, and impressed as I am that off-field injuries made it into OOTP '07, I'm looking forward to a future version where there is more control over their frequency and severity.

I'm almost certain illnesses from injuries.txt happen in the off-season, incidentally, though thinking about it, there's a small chance I added them to the off-field database. I have noticed players in mid-January who are day-to-day with the flu.

Thanks for re-opening this thread- it seemed to disappear quickly the first time around.

[injury log]

Originally Posted by Zeyes

That's also a possibility, but I would doubt it... Anyway, somebody'd just have to create additional type 6 entries in injuries.dat with defined injury durations, and we'd know for sure. Hint, hint.

Edit: Hmm, now that I've written that...does anyone know exactly which settings "connect" an injury line to the type 6 off-field events? I see two possibilities...Body Part Code = 0, or all five injury type booleans = 0.

I agree with Zeyes- I'd guess the 0s produce a random duration (the game sees no specified duration in injuries.dat, so makes one up); I doubt it's hardcoded. Interesting question about the connection between type 6 and the injuries.txt file- something I'll look into! I had assumed it was the 0 body part code, but the alternative makes just as much sense.

[1998 Yankees]

You and Zeyes mentioned injuries.dat again; going back to your earliest posts here, we have established that that file does not exist in 2007 and we are still unsure where injuries data is stored (my guess is world.dat). You mean injuries.txt, correct?

Also, I am happy to report that if you create a new game from a saved quick-start, the injury data is fresh. I was concerned that injuries were saved with the quick-start and could not be changed (or re-imported until that feature is fixed). I experimented by eliminating all injuries except the first one in the file, bruised cheekbone. When I started a new game with my saved quick-start, all the injuries were bruised cheekbones.

[Tony M]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

You and Zeyes mentioned injuries.dat again; going back to your earliest posts here, we have established that that file does not exist in 2007 and we are still unsure where injuries data is stored (my guess is world.dat). You mean injuries.txt, correct?

It's not stored in world.dat unless it is stored in some really bizarre format that doesn't involve text strings. I've pulled apart and decoded world.dat and there's nothing injury like in there.

[injury log]

Good to know about the quickstart; that gives a simple workaround for the reimport issue. And of course you're right, I didn't mean injuries.dat- I meant to refer to the injury database, wherever that is! redsoxford looked at world.dat and didn't find injuries there either, as he reported in this thread:

No Rosters? ... Let's Get to Work.

So it's still a mystery...