Thrift Training Matrix

[Syd Thrift]

Thanks for the encouraging words, guys. Note that I made a couple of minor changes to fielding because I realized that there is still a need to make, for example, a 3B out of a SS in spring training. I haven't gotten around to making stuff for steals and sign-stealing but I will soon.

[ajsas01]

Anyone who would post 'd100' has played a pen-and-paper rpg once or twice

[nyy57rep]

That's some incredible work! This is my first posting on the boards, although I've been playing OOTP since version 5. I always enjoy reading the posts, it tends to rejuvenate my faith in human nature. A very diverse group of people, united in a love of baseball; I feel a kinship even though I've never met anyone on the forum.
Sorry for the schmaltzy intro. Syd, I think the system is excellent. One of the things I love best about baseball sims is "tinkering". In my 2006 version I had a system where I allotted each team a monthly amount of "development" points. Each of the minor league franchises could choose how to spend those points (major league clubs were NOT included, their time needed to be spent winning ballgames and drawing fans) with the following restrictions:
15 points were issued per month per team. The points were split between Pitching development and Hitting development, with a max of 8 points for either facet. Let's start with the pitching portion. A player MUST have a work ethic of at least 50 to qualify (Hey, if the guy doesn't want to learn, you're not going to be able to teach him!), a work ethic of 50-99 qualifies him for a one point boost, 100-149 two points, 150 or better gives him three. You can choose any of the attributes (STF, MOV, CON) to boost, but you can only boost one side (versus RH or LH, not both) and once you reached the potential max, that was it until the game changed the potential.
Hitting was the same, work ethic restrictions,etc., with the exception that the club had the option, IF the player was maxed out, to add five experience points to a fielding position.
I also restricted the allotment of development points to players under age 25, figuring once they got there they were pretty well set in their ways. Arbitrary, I know, but I was playing with a full majors style game, and that's a LOT of minor league clubs.
What I deluded myself into thinking was this simulated a major league club sending somebody (Reggie Jackson, for instance) around to the minors to give the young guys the benefit of their knowledge and experience. A "special scout" if you will.
Finally, during the off season, I allotted each player (once again excluding those guys 25 or older) 15 points, to simulate winter ball,etc. Pitchers could use the points to add a pitch (at a cost of the full 15 points), or to adjust their ratings. If they adjusted ratings, no more than 5 points could be spent on any one rating, although I waived the "one side" rule.
Hitters could use the points to add experience at a fielding position or to increase ratings (once again waiving the one-side rule) or a combination.
What I really like about your system is the possibility of it "not taking" or even backfiring. And of course you have put a lot more thought into making it "realistic".
Thanks for letting me spout off, and here's wishing everyone nothing but World Championships in the future!
BTW, just purchased 2007 and it is head and shoulders above '06! 2006 was a vast undertaking compared to any other b-ball sim, and it had a lot of "need improvement" type of things, just as any prototype does. 2007 (so far anyway) looks like it answers all the concerns I had about '06. OH YEAH!!!!!!

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by ajsas01

Anyone who would post 'd100' has played a pen-and-paper rpg once or twice

It's entirely possible I might play one every Sunday night.

[No Pepper]

Syd, this is great stuff. Good to see this on the boards, hopefully it will get carried somewhere. Reading your dynasty, what is triggering certain coaches to "pass" on development training? Aren't they supposed to instruct or are they just collecting a paycheck?

[briantheiceberg]

Can I get a Bat of Power +2 or a Ring of Endurance +3? Replace my batting gloves with Gauntlets of Power? Obviously my team is using a Bat of Holes -4, an unremovable cursed item.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by No Pepper

Syd, this is great stuff. Good to see this on the boards, hopefully it will get carried somewhere. Reading your dynasty, what is triggering certain coaches to "pass" on development training? Aren't they supposed to instruct or are they just collecting a paycheck?

The way I'm using it (and I'll write this into this once I'm sure that it works), I'm splitting the season up into two halves, including spring training. Each coach gets one training session per half. In many cases, guys aren't terribly good at their job so I held them off in case somebody gets hurt and they need to teach somebody a new position quickly, or if someone goes into a slump, and so on.

Hope that explains it.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by briantheiceberg

Can I get a Bat of Power +2 or a Ring of Endurance +3? Replace my batting gloves with Gauntlets of Power? Obviously my team is using a Bat of Holes -4, an unremovable cursed item.

I think you might have this confused with ITP.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

The way I'm using it (and I'll write this into this once I'm sure that it works), I'm splitting the season up into two halves, including spring training. Each coach gets one training session per half. In many cases, guys aren't terribly good at their job so I held them off in case somebody gets hurt and they need to teach somebody a new position quickly, or if someone goes into a slump, and so on.

Hope that explains it.

This appears to be working pretty well. By giving each coach a chance to teach one session per season-half, I figure this will cause most sessions to be taught in these two periods:

1. Spring training, when you have a month to adjust to any "fails" or "bust" result, and
2. September, when teams have played themselves out of contention anyway and are using the last month as a second training session.

You can use your coaches or not use them at your own risk. As has been shown in the Thriftlon Reports, several of the guys that I passed on during ST ended up imparting skills to players when, for example, they were in sudden need of a position due to injury. That's probably also where you're going to see the majority of your D or F ratings, since in ST and September you're presumably playing the system to get you the best combinations and therefore highest GREAT chances possible.

As an added level of difficulty, if anybody's thinking of using this in a multi-player league, the commish might want to think about *not* releasing the results of the training sessions, or at least not the hitting/pitching ones (it's kind of important in this game to know if a guy has successfully learned 3B or SS... but again, you *could* always make these results hidden as well and let the owners determine whether that guy's .600 FA in his first week at the hot corner is due to bad luck or inability to play). I've turned off actual ratings entirely in my league, which helps facilitate this. You can still have your scouts look at a guy and give you their (skewed) overall rating (that might overrate abilities that aren't that important in your league).

[Left-handed Badger]

I like this a lot. The only thing I might disagree with is CEIs for learning the knuckleball. Unless it is to show that the skills are eroded so much to make him worthless. I would suggest just jacking down Stuff, Control, and Movement to ridiculously low levels or something.


Nice to know I am not the only OOTPer who has a tendnecy to enjoy RPGs.

[Left-handed Badger]

All this is essentially a dead thread, I do have to mention some thoughts.

1) What about learning to catch? Some thoughts I had would be it would generally (preferred) to be taught to minor leaguers, and should be obviously more difficult than any other. Trying it should probably take a hit to other positional ratings. (possibly a hitter's version of Add knuckleball, though not as severe or limiting)

2) Improving Fielding ratings for a position already familiar with. Probably should be limited to younger players more often than not. And probably more towards the Fielding % than to range. But, it often happens in baseball where extra fielding practice is desired to give to a player to make him worth keeping his bat in the lineup.

3) Sinker requirements. More of a nitpick but as a high school pitcher with below average velocity, I got by because I got that good sinking movement on my fastball. Just saying it might be possible to teach to any velocity, possibly even preferred for the below 90 MPH crowd.

4) As an offset to Corking the Bat, the pitchers get Doctoring the Ball. Exception pre-1920, it would just Add a pitch. (I prefer using a splitter in the pitch selection for a spitter, sinker or maybe, forkball or slider could qualify as the substitution)

*Baserunning*

5) I think Speed wouldnt increase too much, unless you get a Great on the session and then very little. (Note: Maybe Excel too, I'd have to give more thought.

6) I've got 2 ideas off top of head on Baserunning Sessions

(More when I detail it)

[Left-handed Badger]

6a) Be agressive (probably Greed, posibly Loyalty or Desire for Winner) Basically the mindset to take more risk on the basepaths.

Bust- player starts running completely scared, stops taking the extra base at times. Speed and Steal might suffer. Basically to show he want run.

Failure- this guys has gone too agressive. Takes too many chances, now. (Speed might slightly increase, Steal not sure, Instincts would take big hit.

Ignore- DOesnt care what you think he should do. No change.

Good- He takes your advice to heart. Nothing major slight rise to steal.

Excels- man the ptichers are wearing out there just chucking it to first. Some rise in speed, big jump in steal

Great- Rickey Who? Moderate hike to speed, gigantic hike to steal.


6b) Learn the pitcher's pickoff move. (Chiefly Intelligence)

Good/Excel/Great chiefly like 6a. Ignore. Steal might drop some. Failure/Bust big and huge drops.



7) Bunting. Probably should separate into Sacrificing and for the hit.

7a)Bunt for hit (not sure, maybe Desire for Winner, possible Intelligence)

Bust and Failure might (theoretically at least) result in slight decrease in Eye as the may reach to make bunt, as well as Bunt for hit decrease. Ignore no change. Good- slight rise. Excels- decent rise. Great- We got us the reincarnation of Brett Butler

7b0Sacrifice Bunt- Blind loyalty to take one for the team.

[Syd Thrift]

FWIW, even though I haven't posted to this in a while, I'm still using it for my dynasty. These are good ideas. One of these days I'll figure out how to make a program that spits all this stuff out for you.

[Syd Thrift]

No new "spells", but those who have given this a whirl have probably been laid down by the ginormous amount of time it takes to go to all the editor screens to find the necessary info. Well, no longer! Introducing, from the clumsy programming hands of Syd Thrift, the Thrift Training Companion!

Thrift train, holy roller! Everyone ride on the Thrift Train!

Unzip it to the folder of your choice. And then you will be wearing golden diapers!