Batting Order Shuffling

[Outtatheblue]

Has anybody noticed if frequent shuffling of the batting order affects play negatively? I mean, does a guy hitting clean-up get depressed and stop hitting if you move him to number 9 or something?

Probably a stupid question, but just curious...

[Scott Vibert]

No the player shouldn't become depressed if you shuffle the batting order. Emotions aren't simulated for within the engine (yet )

I shuffle the batting order often, especially around hot and cold streaks and see little if any negative effects.

[sporr]

Some real-life studies have suggested that there is absolutely no difference who bats where in the grand scheme of things (other than always batting your pitcher 9th) in terms of winning games. It seems to contradict logic, but they did have some statistics to back it up. Of course, I can't remember where I saw the study now...

[wbonnell]

[quote]Originally posted by sporr:
<strong>Some real-life studies have suggested that there is absolutely no difference who bats where in the grand scheme of things (other than always batting your pitcher 9th) in terms of winning games. It seems to contradict logic, but they did have some statistics to back it up. Of course, I can't remember where I saw the study now...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Of course it would make a difference UNLESS you had a team of players with roughly the same abilities. Imagine Barry Bonds batting 8th instead of 4th. He'd see far fewer PA over the course of the season, he'd be IBB'ed more often, and he'd wouldn't have Aurillia or Kent on base in front of him(unless they too were moved).

[sporr]

Ok, I just found the study and I was slightly wrong. The worst batting order (order of ascending on-base) finished 6 games behind a "standard" order. The best batting order (descending on-base), though, was less than one game different than the "standard" order. Here's the study:

<a href="http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~raj/writing/BattingOrder.html" target="_blank">http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~raj/writing/BattingOrder.html</a>

[Killebrew]

[quote]Originally posted by wbonnell:
<strong>Of course it would make a difference UNLESS you had a team of players with roughly the same abilities. Imagine Barry Bonds batting 8th instead of 4th. He'd see far fewer PA over the course of the season, he'd be IBB'ed more often, and he'd wouldn't have Aurillia or Kent on base in front of him(unless they too were moved).</strong><hr></blockquote>

Some people will disagree that players actually get an advantage from a great hitter in front and/or behind them (though I am not one of the people ), but hard to dispute the fact a better player will have more chances to hit when placed higher in the order.

[perez24]

Probably the same frauds that said there's no such thing as clutch hitting

[wbonnell]

[quote]Originally posted by Killebrew:
<strong>

Some people will disagree that players actually get an advantage from a great hitter in front and/or behind them (though I am not one of the people ), but hard to dispute the fact a better player will have more chances to hit when placed higher in the order.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Actually, that wasn't my point. For a player to drive in runs (other than himself), he must have runners on base- somthing Rich Aurillia and Jeff Kent are pretty good at...

[ January 11, 2002: Message edited by: wbonnell ]</p>

[wbonnell]

[quote]Originally posted by sporr:
<strong>Ok, I just found the study and I was slightly wrong. The worst batting order (order of ascending on-base) finished 6 games behind a "standard" order. The best batting order (descending on-base), though, was less than one game different than the "standard" order. Here's the study:

<a href="http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~raj/writing/BattingOrder.html" target="_blank">http://www.alumni.caltech.edu/~raj/writing/BattingOrder.html</a></strong><hr></blockquote>

Baseball is "a game of inches"- these types of decisions distinguish the great managers. One win can clinch a wild card. Two wins might win a division. Consider the fact that the *best* hitter in baseball hits safely only once more every 2-3 games than the *worst* hitter in baseball.

[Killebrew]

[quote]Originally posted by wbonnell:
<strong>Actually, that wasn't my point. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Just referring to the IBB part of your point .

[hellfrozeover]

I would think that in real life, it would affect a player's morale. For instance if you were demoted from lead-off to say the #8 spot in the order, you probably would either get a little ticked off and depending on how rage makes you play you might become more impatient at the plate or you might step up the performance a notch trying to prove that you can hit. Just the way I think it would be....I'm sure someone will disagree.