> Earlier versions of Out of the Park Baseball > Earlier versions of OOTP: General Discussions

Eugene Church · 10-17-2002, 07:17 PM

***************EDIT******************************* **
Please note that this thread began with OOTB4.
Marcus has fixed the PB Rating problems in OOTP5.
The early posts deal with OOTP4...later posts with OOTP5.
****************edit ********************************

I am running a career historical league and noticed that the passed ball rating is not very accurate...at least in my game. The rating is supposed to be "number of passed balls per 162 games".
An excellent catcher will have about 3-6 PB'S per 162 games...a good one 7-10...average 11-14...fair 15-20...poor over 20. In my last two seasons the number of passed balls has been about 5 times the normal average. I researched all catchers in my league and found them to be 4-8 times higher than their passed ball ratings assigned to them.

Has anyone else had this happen?

In my next season I will use this scale for PB rating:

0=excellent
1=good
2=average
3=fair
4=poor
and see if the results are more in line with what they should be. This way if the game continues to be 4-8 times higher, my revised rating scale should work fine.

baseball brat · 10-18-2002, 11:17 AM

Yep...I've noticed the exact same thing. I adjusted passed balls for my 89 career league and Lance Parrish ended up with 116 passed balls! You are right, each passed ball in the rating equals about 4 to 5 passed balls when simmed. Once you realize this, it makes things much simpler.

Anonymous Ghost · 10-18-2002, 11:31 AM

I believe that it's been suggested that the passed ball rating is something along the lines of 550 ABs, rather than the 162 games, which would account for the disparity.

RobertKak · 10-18-2002, 12:49 PM

s

TotalEnd98 · 10-18-2002, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RobertKak
Wait a second.... so you're telling me that a 0-PB rating is the best and a 4-PB rating is the worst? AHH! I just spend a whole crapload of money on what I saw to be the 'perfect' catcher!

It's not a "rating," per se. According to the game, the number is the number of passed balls the catcher will average over the course of 162 games. Therefore, if your catcher has PB: 4, he will average 4 passed balls per MLB-standard season.

According to the game.

What the other gentlemen in the thread are saying is that they feel the PB: X is indeed a rating, with lower still being better. A PB: 0 catcher won't go his whole career without a passed ball, but he will only have a couple a season. On the other hand, a PB: 4 catcher is (apparently; I don't want to put words in their mouths) likely to have a passed ball total approaching 20 per season.

Eugene Church · 10-18-2002, 04:50 PM

TotalEnd98 is correct. His explanation is perfect.

Please understand, I'm a novice at this game and have played only 8 seasons. So I'm still have a lot to learn about it.

I'm hoping the real pros, like Scott, Steve, TigerFan and others will give their thoughts on this subject.

In my next league, I will use this scale for PB ratings:

OOTP4 PB RATING "0" = 0-5 passed balls per 162 game season
OOTP4 PB RATING "1" = 6-10 pb's per season
OOTP4 PB RATING "2" = 11-15 per season
OOTP4 PB RATING "3" = 16-20 per season
OOTP4 PB RATING "4" = 20+ per 162 game season

I'll post the results of my next season to let you know if it is more accurate than the current game rating.

Eugene Church · 10-21-2002, 03:13 PM

I have finished my 1925 season and found the above rating for passed balls to be far more accurate than the rating in OOTP4 (pb's per 162 games). I will continue to make the passed ball rating adjustment as per my scale, rather than use the game's rating.

Have any long time players noticed too many passed ball using the OOTP4 rating? Or is just a fluke in my computer?

Eugene Church · 02-18-2003, 12:11 AM

I researched my last 3 seasons and found that my passed balls rating method needs some refinement.

In 2002 the MLB catchers ranged from 2 to 20 passed balls(first stringers).

I found that in my leagues catchers rated "0" averaged less than
1 passed ball a season.

"1" rated catchers averaged 1-2 passed balls.

"2" rated 3-8 passed balls.

"3" rating 9-15 per year.

and "4" rating averaged 16-20 each year.

MY NEW REVISED PASSED BALL RATING WILL BE AS FOLLOWS:
"1" for excellent catchers (0 to 5 PB's per season)
"2" for good catchers (6 to 10 PB's per season)
"3" for average catchers (11 to 15 PB's per season)
"4" for poor catchers (16 to 20 PB's per season)

I WILL NO LONGER USE "O" AS A RATING AND WILL USE "1" VERY SPARINGLY.

I hope OOTP5 will correct the passed ball rating. Currently you will have 4 to 8 times more passed balls if you use its PB rating based on "number of passed balls per 162 game).

Comments and suggestions appreciated.

Markus Heinsohn · 02-18-2003, 03:49 AM

Will be fixed

JWay · 02-18-2003, 04:05 AM

Thats good to hear, When I saw this I instantly thought that I messed up a few FOB catchers. Sorry guys don't hate me

obaslg · 02-18-2003, 08:59 AM

Thanks for the analysis, JWay - I've often thought that there were too many.

Eugene Church · 02-18-2003, 11:10 AM

I know it's redundant and been said many times before...

Marcus, all of you at OOTPB are very much appreciated.

Thanks.

In comparison, 3do (High Heat) refused to answer my questions about their game. I had to go to OOTPB's message board for answers. 3do certainly doesn't know how to treat its potential customers.

Sudy Nym · 02-18-2003, 03:01 PM

Not to stray from the topic, but has anyone thought of allowing development when it comes to fielding percentages, passed balls, etc.? Because, to my knowledge, I've never seen one of these numbers change (with the exception of learning or re-learning a position), and am therefore under the impression that they're basically concrete. You'd expect that the raw ability that governs defensive errors would change over time, just like range, wouldn't you?

But regarding the PB discussion, my main catcher, rated 3 for PB's, has had, in order, 10 (1053.1 innings), 12 (1357.1 innings), and 11 (1352 innings) PB's over the last three seasons. This appears to be in line with the data collected.

darkhorse · 02-18-2003, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sudy Nym
Not to stray from the topic, but has anyone thought of allowing development when it comes to fielding percentages, passed balls, etc.? Because, to my knowledge, I've never seen one of these numbers change (with the exception of learning or re-learning a position)

I've seen players fielding percentages change when they experience a bump or decline in range factor.

Sudy Nym · 02-19-2003, 12:30 AM

Now that you mention it, I think I can recall seeing it once or twice- I stand corrected, thank you for reminding me. However, I'd still like to see the development of fielding pct., not necessarily in relation to range, in young players.

kimohan · 04-02-2003, 03:33 AM

After looking at some PB ratings for catchers in my 2001 league, I have to wonder if the problem with this rating has been addressed in OOTP5.

I've only done a spot check, but it seems as though every catcher has a PB rating of 4--doesn't matter whether it's Brad Ausmus (1 PB in 127 games, historically) or Jason LaRue (15 PB in 107 games).

Is this something that will be addressed in the next patch, or should I set about modifying the catchers' ratings as outlined earlier in this thread?

Eugene Church · 04-02-2003, 04:46 AM

I just imported Johnny Bench, Yogi Berra, Jim Hegan and Roy Campanella from the Lahman Database to see what their passed ball ratings were... They were all rated at "4". In real life they should be rated "1" or "2".

Marcus said he would fix this for OOTP5.

It could be fixed in the game, while the Lahman Database imports all catchers with a "4" rating. The Lahman Database imports many things and just randomly assigns ratings...I have found it not to be reliable for passed balls, fielding range and arm strength for all players. I research the Baseball-Reference website and assign ratings based on it. Even this is really only good for fielding percentage. For the other categories you have to make an educated guesstimate.

If the catchers in your 2001 league are all rated "4"... they will have 15 to 20 passed balls per 162 games...IF MARCUS DID NOT FIX IT.

If a "4" rated catcher in your league ends up with a number ranging from 2 to 6 passed balls per 162 games...THEN HE REPAIRED IT.

Marcus usually does what he says...It's the Lahman database thats causing the confusion. I think.

asamford · 04-02-2003, 03:46 PM

does anyone know if ankit's database also has these problems with importing PB's and other fielding things?

Eugene Church · 10-01-2003, 06:08 PM

Sorry for the delay in posting this...I forgot about it.

Marcus has fixed it.

The passed ball ratings are much better in OOTP5.

I will use this scale to try and get something close to the MLB average:

Excellent Catcher = 0-3 PB Rating
Good Catcher.......= 4-8 PB Rating
Average Catcher..= 9-12 PB Rating
Fair Catcher.........=13-16 PB Rating
Poor Catcher........=16-20 PB Rating

I'm sure I will have to adjust it some.

I will post the results in this thread.

CareyScurry · 10-21-2003, 02:40 PM

bump

10-17-2002, 07:17 PM	#1 (permalink)
Eugene Church Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 15,146 Thanked 10x in 9 posts	Too many passed balls *************EDIT*************************** Please note that this thread began with OOTB4. Marcus has fixed the PB Rating problems in OOTP5. The early posts deal with OOTP4...later posts with OOTP5. **************edit ****************************** I am running a career historical league and noticed that the passed ball rating is not very accurate...at least in my game. The rating is supposed to be "number of passed balls per 162 games". An excellent catcher will have about 3-6 PB'S per 162 games...a good one 7-10...average 11-14...fair 15-20...poor over 20. In my last two seasons the number of passed balls has been about 5 times the normal average. I researched all catchers in my league and found them to be 4-8 times higher than their passed ball ratings assigned to them. Has anyone else had this happen? In my next season I will use this scale for PB rating: 0=excellent 1=good 2=average 3=fair 4=poor and see if the results are more in line with what they should be. This way if the game continues to be 4-8 times higher, my revised rating scale should work fine. Last edited by Eugene Church; 11-01-2003 at 09:56 PM.

10-18-2002, 12:49 PM	#4 (permalink)
RobertKak Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 107	s __________________ NMWL ______________________________ "The one constant through all the years has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It's been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt, and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. This field, this game, is a part of our past. It reminds us of all that once was good, and what could be again." -Terrance Mann (James Earl Jones) Field of Dreams 1989 Last edited by RobertKak; 03-06-2006 at 02:02 PM.

02-18-2003, 04:05 AM	#10 (permalink)
JWay Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Sioux Falls, South Dakota Posts: 3,592 Thanked 1x in 1 post	Thats good to hear, When I saw this I instantly thought that I messed up a few FOB catchers. Sorry guys don't hate me __________________ Brand New League: The Classic Baseball Union - http://www.thecbu.com Check it out! CBU - Sioux Falls Uber Giraffes - 1st Year Owner/Commissioner 2009 - 102-60 1 Finley Division Championship OTBA - Sioux Falls Cereal Killers - 23rd Year Owner - 1752-1864 .475 win% 7 Playoff Appearances 6 Banned Division Championships 2 Heinsohn League Championships 1 OTBA League Championship

02-18-2003, 08:59 AM	#11 (permalink)
obaslg All Star Reserve Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 881	Thanks for the analysis, JWay - I've often thought that there were too many. __________________ Realy good musition of many insterments, including the hyperbolic vitriol.

02-18-2003, 03:01 PM	#13 (permalink)
Sudy Nym Major Leagues Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 479	Not to stray from the topic, but has anyone thought of allowing development when it comes to fielding percentages, passed balls, etc.? Because, to my knowledge, I've never seen one of these numbers change (with the exception of learning or re-learning a position), and am therefore under the impression that they're basically concrete. You'd expect that the raw ability that governs defensive errors would change over time, just like range, wouldn't you? But regarding the PB discussion, my main catcher, rated 3 for PB's, has had, in order, 10 (1053.1 innings), 12 (1357.1 innings), and 11 (1352 innings) PB's over the last three seasons. This appears to be in line with the data collected. __________________ Tomorrow's Stars Today Baseball League - Portland Beavers <=> WL Wild Card: '11, '14 <=> WL North Divisional Champions: '02, '04-'10, '12, '13, '15-'18 <=> Western League Champions: '04-'06, '09, '10, '13, '18 <=> TSTBL World Champions: 2004, 2006, 2009, 2018

10-18-2002, 11:17 AM	#2 (permalink)
baseball brat Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 118	Yep...I've noticed the exact same thing. I adjusted passed balls for my 89 career league and Lance Parrish ended up with 116 passed balls! You are right, each passed ball in the rating equals about 4 to 5 passed balls when simmed. Once you realize this, it makes things much simpler.

10-18-2002, 11:31 AM	#3 (permalink)
Anonymous Ghost All Star Reserve Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 722	I believe that it's been suggested that the passed ball rating is something along the lines of 550 ABs, rather than the 162 games, which would account for the disparity.

10-18-2002, 04:50 PM	#6 (permalink)
Eugene Church Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 15,146 Thanked 10x in 9 posts	TotalEnd98 is correct. His explanation is perfect. Please understand, I'm a novice at this game and have played only 8 seasons. So I'm still have a lot to learn about it. I'm hoping the real pros, like Scott, Steve, TigerFan and others will give their thoughts on this subject. In my next league, I will use this scale for PB ratings: OOTP4 PB RATING "0" = 0-5 passed balls per 162 game season OOTP4 PB RATING "1" = 6-10 pb's per season OOTP4 PB RATING "2" = 11-15 per season OOTP4 PB RATING "3" = 16-20 per season OOTP4 PB RATING "4" = 20+ per 162 game season I'll post the results of my next season to let you know if it is more accurate than the current game rating.

10-21-2002, 03:13 PM	#7 (permalink)
Eugene Church Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 15,146 Thanked 10x in 9 posts	I have finished my 1925 season and found the above rating for passed balls to be far more accurate than the rating in OOTP4 (pb's per 162 games). I will continue to make the passed ball rating adjustment as per my scale, rather than use the game's rating. Have any long time players noticed too many passed ball using the OOTP4 rating? Or is just a fluke in my computer?

02-18-2003, 12:11 AM	#8 (permalink)
Eugene Church Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 15,146 Thanked 10x in 9 posts	I researched my last 3 seasons and found that my passed balls rating method needs some refinement. In 2002 the MLB catchers ranged from 2 to 20 passed balls(first stringers). I found that in my leagues catchers rated "0" averaged less than 1 passed ball a season. "1" rated catchers averaged 1-2 passed balls. "2" rated 3-8 passed balls. "3" rating 9-15 per year. and "4" rating averaged 16-20 each year. MY NEW REVISED PASSED BALL RATING WILL BE AS FOLLOWS: "1" for excellent catchers (0 to 5 PB's per season) "2" for good catchers (6 to 10 PB's per season) "3" for average catchers (11 to 15 PB's per season) "4" for poor catchers (16 to 20 PB's per season) I WILL NO LONGER USE "O" AS A RATING AND WILL USE "1" VERY SPARINGLY. I hope OOTP5 will correct the passed ball rating. Currently you will have 4 to 8 times more passed balls if you use its PB rating based on "number of passed balls per 162 game). Comments and suggestions appreciated.

02-18-2003, 03:49 AM	#9 (permalink)
Markus Heinsohn Developer OOTP Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Heinbockel, Germany Posts: 10,343 Thanked 242x in 63 posts	Will be fixed

02-18-2003, 11:10 AM	#12 (permalink)
Eugene Church Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 15,146 Thanked 10x in 9 posts	I know it's redundant and been said many times before... Marcus, all of you at OOTPB are very much appreciated. Thanks. In comparison, 3do (High Heat) refused to answer my questions about their game. I had to go to OOTPB's message board for answers. 3do certainly doesn't know how to treat its potential customers.

02-19-2003, 12:30 AM	#15 (permalink)
Sudy Nym Major Leagues Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 479	Now that you mention it, I think I can recall seeing it once or twice- I stand corrected, thank you for reminding me. However, I'd still like to see the development of fielding pct., not necessarily in relation to range, in young players. __________________ Tomorrow's Stars Today Baseball League - Portland Beavers <=> WL Wild Card: '11, '14 <=> WL North Divisional Champions: '02, '04-'10, '12, '13, '15-'18 <=> Western League Champions: '04-'06, '09, '10, '13, '18 <=> TSTBL World Champions: 2004, 2006, 2009, 2018

04-02-2003, 03:33 AM	#16 (permalink)
kimohan Bat Boy Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 12	After looking at some PB ratings for catchers in my 2001 league, I have to wonder if the problem with this rating has been addressed in OOTP5. I've only done a spot check, but it seems as though every catcher has a PB rating of 4--doesn't matter whether it's Brad Ausmus (1 PB in 127 games, historically) or Jason LaRue (15 PB in 107 games). Is this something that will be addressed in the next patch, or should I set about modifying the catchers' ratings as outlined earlier in this thread?

04-02-2003, 04:46 AM	#17 (permalink)
Eugene Church Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 15,146 Thanked 10x in 9 posts	I just imported Johnny Bench, Yogi Berra, Jim Hegan and Roy Campanella from the Lahman Database to see what their passed ball ratings were... They were all rated at "4". In real life they should be rated "1" or "2". Marcus said he would fix this for OOTP5. It could be fixed in the game, while the Lahman Database imports all catchers with a "4" rating. The Lahman Database imports many things and just randomly assigns ratings...I have found it not to be reliable for passed balls, fielding range and arm strength for all players. I research the Baseball-Reference website and assign ratings based on it. Even this is really only good for fielding percentage. For the other categories you have to make an educated guesstimate. If the catchers in your 2001 league are all rated "4"... they will have 15 to 20 passed balls per 162 games...IF MARCUS DID NOT FIX IT. If a "4" rated catcher in your league ends up with a number ranging from 2 to 6 passed balls per 162 games...THEN HE REPAIRED IT. Marcus usually does what he says...It's the Lahman database thats causing the confusion. I think.

04-02-2003, 03:46 PM	#18 (permalink)
asamford Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Snellville, Georgia Posts: 1,767	does anyone know if ankit's database also has these problems with importing PB's and other fielding things?

10-01-2003, 06:08 PM	#19 (permalink)
Eugene Church Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 15,146 Thanked 10x in 9 posts	Sorry for the delay in posting this...I forgot about it. Marcus has fixed it. The passed ball ratings are much better in OOTP5. I will use this scale to try and get something close to the MLB average: Excellent Catcher = 0-3 PB Rating Good Catcher.......= 4-8 PB Rating Average Catcher..= 9-12 PB Rating Fair Catcher.........=13-16 PB Rating Poor Catcher........=16-20 PB Rating I'm sure I will have to adjust it some. I will post the results in this thread.

10-21-2003, 02:40 PM	#20 (permalink)
CareyScurry Minors (Double A) Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: NC Posts: 109	bump

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> Earlier versions of Out of the Park Baseball > Earlier versions of OOTP: General Discussions

Too many passed balls