Has this bug been reported???

[kq76]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

We had it that way in a previous OOTP version, but it was wrong, so it was fixed.

Markus, did you read the rest of this thread? It seems pretty clear that you're wrong. Players do accrue service time while on the 60 day DL. Do you have evidence to prove otherwise?

EDIT: This is especially important for online leagues.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by kq76

Markus, did you read the rest of this thread? It seems pretty clear that you're wrong. Players do accrue service time while on the 60 day DL. Do you have evidence to prove otherwise?

EDIT: This is especially important for online leagues.

No, I do not remeber the site/thread. Maybe the rule was changed in the meantime? If somebody finds the clear rule then I'll be willing to fix it.

[ootp3to6]

Originally Posted by statfreak

I'm 100% certain going on the DL results in automatic removal from the 40 man roster. That's the whole point of the 60 day DL and the only difference from the 15 DL from what I've read today.

In OOTP, placing a player on the 60 day DL most definitely removes him from the 40 man roster. Again, that is the only point of the 60 day DL, to clear a roster spot on the 40 man roster.

I did not realize that placing a player on the 60 DL removes him from the 40 man roster. Learn something new everyday.

[kq76]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

No, I do not remeber the site/thread. Maybe the rule was changed in the meantime? If somebody finds the clear rule then I'll be willing to fix it.

I already pointed the thread and evidence out to you. The CBA clearly states that service time accrues while on the DL and it does not make a distinction between the 15 and 60 day DLs for service time purposes. That, and the common sense that the MLBPA wouldn't allow this loophole, should clearly indicate that they should get service time while on the 60 day DL.

The 2007-2011 CBA (page 82) says the same thing on this topic as the 2003-2006 CBA did in that thread.

[Tony M]

Originally Posted by ootp3to6

I did not realize that placing a player on the 60 DL removes him from the 40 man roster. Learn something new everyday.

But only if the 40 man roster is full. If you have 39 players on that roster you cannot place a player on the DL60.

[Treches]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

No, I do not remeber the site/thread. Maybe the rule was changed in the meantime? If somebody finds the clear rule then I'll be willing to fix it.

Haven't changed; it was like that before as well. The rule you have it on the examples: Matt Morris, Snelling, Prior, Liriano last year, etc. All of them got service time while on the 60-day DL.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by kq76

I already pointed the thread and evidence out to you. The CBA clearly states that service time accrues while on the DL and it does not make a distinction between the 15 and 60 day DLs for service time purposes. That, and the common sense that the MLBPA wouldn't allow this loophole, should clearly indicate that they should get service time while on the 60 day DL.

The 2007-2011 CBA (page 82) says the same thing on this topic as the 2003-2006 CBA did in that thread.

Well, I will change it then... however, if it turns out that this is wrong, then you owe me a beer

[kq76]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Well, I will change it then... however, if it turns out that this is wrong, then you owe me a beer

Deal! With the people who agree on this I'm as confident as I can be.

And that's after the first one I'll buy you. Be careful, I might try to get you real liquored up and convince you to add/change a whole slew of things.

[Raidergoo]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Well, I will change it then... however, if it turns out that this is wrong, then you owe me a beer

See ARTICLE XXI—Credited Major League Service

A. Definitions

Those Player rights expressly set forth in the Basic Agreement for which a Player’s eligibility is dependent upon credited Major League service will be determined as follows:

(1) One full day of Major League service will be credited for each day of the championship season a Player is on a Major League Club’s Active List. A total of 172 days of Major League credited service will constitute one full year of credited service. A Player may not be credited with more than one year of credited service, 172 days, in one championship season. Major League service will be computed commencing with the date of the first regularly scheduled championship season game, through and including the date of the last regularly scheduled championship season game. This rule shall apply uniformly to all Players and all Clubs notwithstanding differences in a particular Club’s schedule.

(2) For purposes of calculating credited service, a Player will be considered to be on a Club’s Active List if:

(a) placed on a disciplinary suspension by a Club, the Vice President, On-Field Operations or the Commissioner, or on the Disabled List; or (b) called to active military duty for up to two years or if called to emergency duty by the National Guard for a period of up to thirty days.

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by redsoxford

But only if the 40 man roster is full. If you have 39 players on that roster you cannot place a player on the DL60.

Umm, I've placed players on the 60 day DL with less than 40 players on the 40 man roster.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by statfreak

I'm 100% certain going on the DL results in automatic removal from the 40 man roster. That's the whole point of the 60 day DL and the only difference from the 15 DL from what I've read today.

My understanding is that placing a player on the 60-day DL does not remove him from the 40-man roster; rather it means he no longer counts against the 40-man limit. A subtle but important distinction.

With the inured player no longer counting against the limit, the club is free to bring up another player to replace him. But when the injured player is reinstated from the DL, someone has to be removed from the 40-man roster. If it's the injured player who's going to be removed, then he'd have to be designated for assignment upon his reinstatement.


Speaking of disabled lists, the minor league DL goes back to at least 1955. At that time, there was only a 10-day DL and no long-term one. An injured player could be unconditionally released and was entitled to just two weeks' termination pay (in the majors, an injured player who was released got the balance of his pay for the rest of the season).

[The Wolf]

When discussions like this arise it convinces me that baseball's rules on this subject are way too hard to understand. The answer here should be clear, and it just isn't.

[statfreak]

I was referring to within OOTP. Place a player on the 60 day DL and the game removes him from the 40 man roster.

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

My understanding is that placing a player on the 60-day DL does not remove him from the 40-man roster; rather it means he no longer counts against the 40-man limit. A subtle but important distinction.

With the inured player no longer counting against the limit, the club is free to bring up another player to replace him. But when the injured player is reinstated from the DL, someone has to be removed from the 40-man roster. If it's the injured player who's going to be removed, then he'd have to be designated for assignment upon his reinstatement.


Speaking of disabled lists, the minor league DL goes back to at least 1955. At that time, there was only a 10-day DL and no long-term one. An injured player could be unconditionally released and was entitled to just two weeks' termination pay (in the majors, an injured player who was released got the balance of his pay for the rest of the season).

[Solonor]

Originally Posted by Raidergoo

See ARTICLE XXI—Credited Major League Service

A. Definitions

Those Player rights expressly set forth in the Basic Agreement for which a Player’s eligibility is dependent upon credited Major League service will be determined as follows:

(1) One full day of Major League service will be credited for each day of the championship season a Player is on a Major League Club’s Active List. A total of 172 days of Major League credited service will constitute one full year of credited service. A Player may not be credited with more than one year of credited service, 172 days, in one championship season. Major League service will be computed commencing with the date of the first regularly scheduled championship season game, through and including the date of the last regularly scheduled championship season game. This rule shall apply uniformly to all Players and all Clubs notwithstanding differences in a particular Club’s schedule.

(2) For purposes of calculating credited service, a Player will be considered to be on a Club’s Active List if:

(a) placed on a disciplinary suspension by a Club, the Vice President, On-Field Operations or the Commissioner, or on the Disabled List; or (b) called to active military duty for up to two years or if called to emergency duty by the National Guard for a period of up to thirty days.

The Biz of Baseball :: Part of the Business of Sports Network - Disabled List

"A player on either list continues to accumulate Major League service time..."

[MrWorkrate]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

My understanding is that placing a player on the 60-day DL does not remove him from the 40-man roster; rather it means he no longer counts against the 40-man limit. A subtle but important distinction.

Well, technically it does, but realisticly it doesn't. At the end of the season, players who are on the 60-day DL have to be put back on the 40-man roster or go through the DFA/waiver process, the same as if they were being outrighted. There really isn't a difference in that context.

The 60 day DL (or "emergency DL", if you will) just opens up a slot on the 40 man roster so that a team can't be handcuffed by injuries so much that they cannot replace their own players at the major league level. There is no more justification for injury to place someone on the 60-day DL rather than the 15-day DL. It is just a provision in the roster rules to allow teams to remain competitive without exposing players to waivers who would otherwise not be made eligible.

Officially, a team cannot place a player on the 60-day DL without a full 40 man roster. This is why you will see players who have season-ending injuries placed on the 15-day DL. A good recent example of this is Troy Patton of the Orioles; Patton had labrum surgery in March which put him out for the 2008 season, yet he was only moved from the 15-day to the 60-day DL July 8th because the Orioles didn't need to 40-man spot until then. Realisticly no player is "placed on" the 60-day DL. Players are placed on the 15-day DL then moved when necessary.

The confusion with service time might be because of rookie of the year designation. When a player is on the 60 day DL (or the 15 day DL, for that matter) he is piling up service time, but that time doesn't count towards his rookie eligibility. Once a player makes 130 major league at-bats, pitches 50 major league innings, or spends 45 days on a major league roster, he is no longer eligible for rookie status. When they're on the DL, they still get paid as a major leaguer (and still get service time like a major leaguer), but for award purposes they're still given a chance when they're healthy. Larry Walker spent the entire 1988 season on the major league DL, but went on to finish 7th in the NL Rookie of the Year balloting - two years later in 1990 (Walker blew out his knee in winter ball before the 1988 season, then spent most of 1989 at AAA, only getting 47 AB at the major league level that season.