Has this bug been reported???

[PSUColonel]

I would have put it in the bugs thread, but with the new version coming I wanted to make sure it was out there. When I place my starting pitcher on the disabled list, suddenly he now has a minor league contract. Why is this? It also says he only has 21 days of service time. What gives? As of now, I'm in Spring Training of 2009. He was out most of 2008 with an injury.

[statfreak]

I'm not sure this is incorrect. It appears he only played 21 days on the major league roster before being injured and presumably placed on the 60-day DL which would have taken him off the 40 man roster. Since he was drafted in 2008, he should have a minor league contract when in the minors and since he is not on the major league roster at the start of the new year, is correctly assigned a minor league contract.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by statfreak

I'm not sure this is incorrect. It appears he only played 21 days on the major league roster before being injured and presumably placed on the 60-day DL which would have taken him off the 40 man roster. Since he was drafted in 2008, he should have a minor league contract when in the minors and since he is not on the major league roster at the start of the new year, is correctly assigned a minor league contract.

Exactly. No problem here.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by statfreak

I'm not sure this is incorrect. It appears he only played 21 days on the major league roster before being injured and presumably placed on the 60-day DL which would have taken him off the 40 man roster.

But time on the DL counts as major league service. So he should have 21 days of service from participating in games plus whatever number of days he was on the disabled list.

Originally Posted by statfreak

Since he was drafted in 2008, he should have a minor league contract when in the minors and since he is not on the major league roster at the start of the new year, is correctly assigned a minor league contract.

Aside from a few exceptions, generally a player on the DL cannot be assigned to a minor league team. He would have to have been reinstated first and then assigned outright to a minor league club (which is the only way he can be in the minors and no longer on the 40-man roster).

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

But time on the DL counts as major league service. So he should have 21 days of service from participating in games plus whatever number of days he was on the disabled list.

Aside from a few exceptions, generally a player on the DL cannot be assigned to a minor league team. He would have to have been reinstated first and then assigned outright to a minor league club (which is the only way he can be in the minors and no longer on the 40-man roster).

right. If you look at his stats, he HAS pitched in Major League games.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

right. If you look at his stats, he HAS pitched in Major League games.

Yes, but in 2008... it is 2009 now, and since he is not on the major league roster he did not get a MLB contract. If he is on the roster or 15-day dl on or after opening day, then he'll get one.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

But time on the DL counts as major league service.

Not if he is on the 60-day DL.

[PSUColonel]

What I don't understand is why he wasn't given a major league contract in 2008. He started 3 games that year.

[kcroyalgm]

He almost certainly did have a major league contract in 2008.

But if a player in the auto-renewal minimum contract period starts a new season (2009) on the 60-day DL or on a minor league roster, he reverts to a minor league contract until such time as he is again on a major league roster (or the 15-day DL).

[PSUColonel]

Originally Posted by kcroyalgm

He almost certainly did have a major league contract in 2008.

But if a player in the auto-renewal minimum contract period starts a new season (2009) on the 60-day DL or on a minor league roster, he reverts to a minor league contract until such time as he is again on a major league roster (or the 15-day DL).

Is this the actual rule, or rather a loophole in the game?

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Not if he is on the 60-day DL.

I'm pretty sure that in the real world ALL time on the Disabled List counts as major league service time. The distinction between the type of DL is not relevant for service time calculation.

Originally Posted by PSUColonel

Is this the actual rule, or rather a loophole in the game?

The real world scenario depends on the nature of the contract.

A player assigned outright to a minor league still gets paid according to his contract. If it was a major league split contract, that is, one which specified one rate of pay for minor league service and another rate of pay for major league service, then the player gets paid his minor league rate. If instead the major league contract only specified one rate of pay, then the player gets paid that rate regardless of whether he's in the majors or minors.

The only way the major league team gets off the hook for the player's salary is if the player refuses the outright assignment and instead opts to become a free agent.

[Treches]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

I'm pretty sure that in the real world ALL time on the Disabled List counts as major league service time. The distinction between the type of DL is not relevant for service time calculation.

Correct (see Mark Prior incident regarding 60-day DL vs minor-league disabled list).

[t-bone shuffle]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

I'm pretty sure that in the real world ALL time on the Disabled List counts as major league service time. The distinction between the type of DL is not relevant for service time calculation.

To add to this and to hopefully clarify some of the confusion.....Isn't the primary role of the 60 day DL to clear a space on the 40 man roster. Like LGO, I'm about certain that being placed on the 60 day DL has no effect on service time or contract status. It's simply a way for teams to avoid having a player who's disabled for an extended period eating up a spot on their 40 man roster. And this would include any minor leaguer who's on the 40 man roster as well.

[statfreak]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

I'm pretty sure that in the real world ALL time on the Disabled List counts as major league service time. The distinction

I respectfully disagree. Service time is only counted when the player is on the 40 man roster. Placing a player on the 60 day DL removes the player from the 40 man roster and thus he would not accumulate any service time until he is reinstated on to the 40 man roster.


Edit: after looking for a definitive source and not finding one, I'm inclined to agree in the real world a player should continue to receive service time regardless if he is on the 15 or 60 day DL. I'm assuming in OOTP players only accumulate time when on the 40 man roster which seems reasonably. Definitely not a bug, but maybe something to look at in a future patch or version.

[kq76]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

I'm pretty sure that in the real world ALL time on the Disabled List counts as major league service time. The distinction between the type of DL is not relevant for service time calculation.

I recall this coming up once before in a discussion and someone found something that indicated it is the way it is in the game. However, I also recall for some reason thinking that the source used wasn't all that reliable. I also seem to remember Markus posting in the thread so maybe he remembers it better. Anyway, I think you're right. I'm just saying that there did appear to be some contradicting evidence.

EDIT: Here we go. Okay, so I remembered it wrong. I don't remember everything right. Note that in the end they came to LGO's conclusion, not Markus's.

EDIT 2: Maybe look at it this way.. It seems a pretty big loophole and not at all the intention of the 60day DL if you let teams put a guy on the 60day DL so he doesn't accrue service time. I'm pretty sure the MLBPA would realize this and demand that service time accrue regardless.

[t-bone shuffle]

Look at it a different way. I don't think there's a chance in hell that the MLBPA would allow a situation where a veteran wouldn't be accruing service time just because he had to be put on the 60 day DL because of injury.

Also, are we certain that going onto the 60 day DL results in automatic removal from the 40 man. I didn't think so and it doesn't in OOTP. I just think it's an option.

[statfreak]

good memory kq. Looks like it was fixed at some point, but the fix didn't carry over to the new version. Hopefully it is a simple thing for Markus to update so service time is accumulated regardless of which DL the player is on.

[statfreak]

Originally Posted by t-bone shuffle

Also, are we certain that going onto the 60 day DL results in automatic removal from the 40 man. I didn't think so and it doesn't in OOTP. I just think it's an option.

I'm 100% certain going on the DL results in automatic removal from the 40 man roster. That's the whole point of the 60 day DL and the only difference from the 15 DL from what I've read today.

In OOTP, placing a player on the 60 day DL most definitely removes him from the 40 man roster. Again, that is the only point of the 60 day DL, to clear a roster spot on the 40 man roster.

[kq76]

Another point brought up in that thread I linked to was that the 60 day DL is only allowed to be used when the 40 man is full. Like Derek4jc said, the point might be mute if service time properly still accrues, but is there a good reason to make it so that that particular rule is followed? I don't think so, but then why do they have it?

Would it be something like having 39 guys on it, but wanting to put a guy on the 60 to bring it down to 38 so you can add 2 guys to make it 40? You could just add 1 first, then subtract the 1, then add the second. I guess that's not it, but can it be something else like that? :scratches head:

EDIT: Maybe this rule doesn't even exist. Maybe someone just incorrectly thought it did.

[Markus Heinsohn]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

I'm pretty sure that in the real world ALL time on the Disabled List counts as major league service time. The distinction between the type of DL is not relevant for service time calculation.

We had it that way in a previous OOTP version, but it was wrong, so it was fixed.