Cecil Fielder a shortstop???

[David Watts]

Using real players starting 1992----Cecil Fielder is listed as a shortstop for the Tigers. He isn't playing a whole lot, and when I set his position to 1b (commish mode) the computer changes it back to ss after 1 ootp day. He is only rated at 1b, so I have no clue how he ended up a SS. Kinda strange.

[Renner]

Originally Posted by David Watts

Using real players starting 1992----Cecil Fielder is listed as a shortstop for the Tigers. He isn't playing a whole lot, and when I set his position to 1b (commish mode) the computer changes it back to ss after 1 ootp day. He is only rated at 1b, so I have no clue how he ended up a SS. Kinda strange.

Well, he actually played 2 games at 2B in 1988 ! Seriously, I have noticed in many occasions in my fictional league that the 5th OF or backup INF end up playing strange positions if the AI controls them. I see a lumbering left-handed LF end up with 1-2 games at Catcher at season's end or the backup 1B with some games at SS.

[clamel]

This is a problem bigger than Fielder (How is that possible ??)

I find Howie Kendrick listed as a 2B in quick-start for Angels, but his ratings are a lot better as a FIRST BASE player.
Howie hardly plays that position anymore. He have listed some in 2006 but he really shouldn´t have that rating. He is even better than Kotchmann and the Angels last ranked 2B player. Naturally AI manager use HIM as 1B.

RATINGS and the use of players by the AI (even if the ratings are OK) are a little or more WRONG.

I hope Markus looks at this for the upcoming patches. The ratings should match the position players played most AND then the AI manager should use players in those positions or this will get ridiculous.....

[Renner]

Originally Posted by clamel

I find Howie Kendrick listed as a 2B in quick-start for Angels, but his ratings are a lot better as a FIRST BASE player.
Howie hardly plays that position anymore. He have listed some in 2006 but he really shouldn´t have that rating. He is even better than Kotchmann and the Angels last ranked 2B player. Naturally AI manager use HIM as 1B.

I don't use the OOTP9 real MLB players, but using my fictional leagues I've seen that INFs who can play 1B and other INF positions are normally always rated highest at 1B. The theory behind this (and I've seen this in other posts) is that 1B is the easiest of the INF positions to play and would be so rated accordingly.
No offense to anybody using real players, but this is just another case of why I won't...too much subjective work goes into the 1000s of ratings. Nobody's ever 100% happy with them...I'll stick to my fake players of whom I have no expectations.

[SkyDog]

Originally Posted by Renner

I don't use the OOTP9 real MLB players, but using my fictional leagues I've seen that INFs who can play 1B and other INF positions are normally always rated highest at 1B. The theory behind this (and I've seen this in other posts) is that 1B is the easiest of the INF positions to play and would be so rated accordingly.

While it's the easiest to play, it doesn't make sense that a guy who has played shortstop his entire life would be rated higher at first base. He's never charged a bunt, scooped a low throw, stretched for a high throw, led the pitcher on the 3-1 play, etc. But in OOTP, he can play 1B as a Gold Glover without ever having played it before.

[Renner]

A discussion of this very topic...

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...positions.html

[SkyDog]

Right, but again, what that discussion isn't taking into account is the learning curve. Yes, it's easier than SS, but there *is* still a learning curve. The ball comes off the bat at a different angle, and you have to make entirely different plays. I agree that anyone who can play SS would eventually be a great defensive first baseman...but not immediately.

[David Watts]

If you had Cecil at short who would be your ideal 2B to complete DP combo?---I'm thinking of several --John Mayberry, George Scott, Boog Powell, Harman Killebrew etc.

[Renner]

I agree. I'm just saying that this is the company "line" - a good INF will make a good 1B. I'm not saying I believe it or not, but there it is.

[Renner]

Originally Posted by David Watts

If you had Cecil at short who would be your ideal 2B to complete DP combo?---I'm thinking of several --John Mayberry, George Scott, Boog Powell, Harman Killebrew etc.

I think you'd have to fit Mo Vaughan or David Ortiz in there somewhere

[zukes]

Originally Posted by David Watts

If you had Cecil at short who would be your ideal 2B to complete DP combo?---I'm thinking of several --John Mayberry, George Scott, Boog Powell, Harman Killebrew etc.

Prince Fielder obviously.

[Another Mike D]

Kendrick has played both, not sure if you edited it down to a 2 the AI still wouldn't use him as it see fit. I think while the underlying problem of 1B being easy, microediting the roster set is going to be a lost cause as there is no guarantee of the AI even putting him there anyway. If you want it to be a certain way, you can control all the teams and make sure everyone plays their real position. This should certainly not be looked at in a patch as you should have the ability to edit this quite easily.

Maybe somebody should have told Jim Leyland in the offseason that Cabrera had never played 1B before and therefore should only be used as a 3B. It happens and the AI may think its best chance to win is to play Kendrick at 1B. This is why I hate roster sets

[Renner]

Originally Posted by Another Mike D

Kendrick has played both, not sure if you edited it down to a 2 the AI still wouldn't use him as it see fit. I think while the underlying problem of 1B being easy, microediting the roster set is going to be a lost cause as there is no guarantee of the AI even putting him there anyway. If you want it to be a certain way, you can control all the teams and make sure everyone plays their real position. This should certainly not be looked at in a patch as you should have the ability to edit this quite easily.

Maybe somebody should have told Jim Leyland in the offseason that Cabrera had never played 1B before and therefore should only be used as a 3B. It happens and the AI may think its best chance to win is to play Kendrick at 1B. This is why I hate roster sets

I agree with all of this post !

[swampdragon]

You can stop the nonsense by creating a human manager for the Tigers and setting Fielder's position back to 1B. I don't think the AI will change him back to SS after that.

[David Watts]

Question for all you fictional players-----Imagine a fictional player with the same skillset and body type of Cecil. He is rated at 1b only. Would your lack of a preconceived opinion of the fictional player allow you to accept his move to short? I guess this is ole tree falling in the forest question... I know when I play fictional, I would probably never notice.

[rwd59]

I play historicals only and can't tell you the number of times in 2007 and this version that I have had Rico Carty being an all-star.......CATCHER. He never plays the outfield. He did play C a few games 1 season but that is all the AI will play him at. The logic the games uses with the assigning of positions is one of the weakest areas of the game for me. Examples like yours are widespread. Cecil Fielder a 2B....with a range of about 6 inches to either side......I would pay to see that wouldn't you? I wish there was a way to disable allowing the AI to assign players to positionsthey are not rated for. If the team needs a 2B then let them either call one up or trade for one....not randomly create one.

[clamel]

Originally Posted by rwd59

I play historicals only and can't tell you the number of times in 2007 and this version that I have had Rico Carty being an all-star.......CATCHER. He never plays the outfield. He did play C a few games 1 season but that is all the AI will play him at. The logic the games uses with the assigning of positions is one of the weakest areas of the game for me. Examples like yours are widespread. Cecil Fielder a 2B....with a range of about 6 inches to either side......I would pay to see that wouldn't you? I wish there was a way to disable allowing the AI to assign players to positionsthey are not rated for. If the team needs a 2B then let them either call one up or trade for one....not randomly create one.

Hopefully the boys behind this masterpiece looks at this and see if they can make changes . With so much nice stuff that can´t be too hard to fix this IMHO..... Or can it ???

[Another Mike D]

Problem is, Cecil played some 2B, 3B, and even the OF during his first 3 seasons. When he was a rookie, his weight was under 200 (I think 198 I saw). So maybe you remember the big fat Cecil. Unfortunately, the game knows him as a 198 pound (I'm not sure how much attention is paid to weight) rookie who played 20% of his games in the field at 2B as a rookie (or 2nd year). Maybe there's a setting to use to change it (maybe recalc), or you can go in the DB and maybe edit these things yourself. I'm just not sure it's "terrible" logic.

Honestly, I've had guys drafted in my fictional leagues that may have been 1s or 2s at 3B or SS and 6s at 1B. I just figured lots of guys play multiple positions in college and in the minors. I wouldn't like to see Cecil at SS, but to say it's something major that needs fixing is not quite correct.

[Giants44]

as far as the making big Cecil a SS, yes I consider that a bug that needs to be fixed.


as far as the everyone who walks on the field is a gold glover concept, I rambled on this back in 2006.

All 1B are gold glovers

I believe this is still an issue, albeit one that has come a little bit down, but not enough

In my 2006 league I had an absurd 344 gold glove 1B in my league rated 10 out of 10.

v2007 and v8 didn't seem to improve this at all.

My new MLB league in v9 has 140 which is obviously better, but not completely better.

in my new historical league in v9 (1976 historical)- there are only 7 - so it appears this is less of an issue in the historical game.

I find it completely illogical that there are 5 players per team that are as good as the best defensive 1B of all time. Yes 1B is an easier position than the other infield positions, but not by that much.

[Giants44]

Originally Posted by Another Mike D

Problem is, Cecil played some 2B, 3B, and even the OF during his first 3 seasons. When he was a rookie, his weight was under 200 (I think 198 I saw). So maybe you remember the big fat Cecil. Unfortunately, the game knows him as a 198 pound (I'm not sure how much attention is paid to weight) rookie who played 20% of his games in the field at 2B as a rookie (or 2nd year). Maybe there's a setting to use to change it (maybe recalc), or you can go in the DB and maybe edit these things yourself. I'm just not sure it's "terrible" logic.

Honestly, I've had guys drafted in my fictional leagues that may have been 1s or 2s at 3B or SS and 6s at 1B. I just figured lots of guys play multiple positions in college and in the minors. I wouldn't like to see Cecil at SS, but to say it's something major that needs fixing is not quite correct.

to me this is a problem. I believe the game should look at a players career as a whole to decide what position he should play - not simply what he was able to do very briefly as a rookie.

In his entire career he played 6 innings at second, and 10 at third. over 7,000 innings at 1B and another 500+ games as a DH. Big Cecil should not be considered anything but a 1B/DH

Cecil Fielder Statistics - Baseball-Reference.com


As an aside I actually saw in person the big guy play some IF in one of the more bizarre things I have ever seen at a game.

It was a 1988 A's game and the Blue Jays 2B got hurt and Cecil was on the bench that day. Well apparently they didn't have any other IF's available because they trotted Cecil out to 2B and he was very large at this point in his career. Now that was out of the ordinary, but by no means a bizarre occurunce I would remember 20 years later. What made it so odd, was the put Cecil at 2B, first batter walks and he ran over to 3B and the 3B Kelly Gruber went to 2B. I don't know if they were worried about turning a double play, or just taking a throw at second or what, but it was very bizare. We figured maybe he changed his mind and thought third would be easier. So next guy hits into a double play (niceley turned by gruber BTW) What really suprised us now that there were no runners on he trotted back over to 2B. Repeated the whole adventure again the next inning. Why not just keep him at 3B the whole time?