Black Sox

sayheykid · 10-24-2008, 11:51 PM

Just watched "Eight Men Out" for the 4th or 5th time. That got me curious. Has anyone played the historic year (1919)? Did the Sox throw the series?

Bluenoser · 10-25-2008, 04:54 AM

Those sort of things aren't programmed into OOTP.

PhillieFever · 10-25-2008, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sayheykid

Just watched "Eight Men Out" for the 4th or 5th time. That got me curious. Has anyone played the historic year (1919)? Did the Sox throw the series?

I'm assuming you're joking about throwing the series but as far as playing out that season,I'm also interested in how it would play out.

sayheykid · 10-25-2008, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhillieFever

I'm assuming you're joking about throwing the series but as far as playing out that season,I'm also interested in how it would play out.

Not joking. 7 members of the 1919 White Sox received bribes to throw the World Series. An 8th player (Bucky Weaver) was also thrown out of baseball, because he knew about it and didn't report it to his club. The most noted of these players was Shoeless Joe Jackson.

John C · 10-25-2008, 12:00 PM

I sincerely, wholeheartedly doubt that there is a *single* person on the OOTP forum (boxing not included) who does not know about 1919.

That said, the Sox will never throw the series in OOTP. It is impossible within the game's parameters, as such a proposition does not exist.

bigdgp2 · 10-25-2008, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John C

That said, the Sox will never throw the series in OOTP. It is impossible within the game's parameters, as such a proposition does not exist.

Markus, would you mind programming this into OOTP10? At least make it an option for a team's players to throw the Series.

John C · 10-25-2008, 12:18 PM

I had this thought as well...with player personalities becoming more of a feature in games (Wolverine Studios, mainly), there should be more player-to-player relationships in the game.

I asked for it to be included in OOTP10, but more of a "pitcher/catcher, double-play tandem" feature; if a catcher wasn't good with a particular pitcher, it could hurt his ability. If a SS and 2B don't have good chemistry, turning double plays could be more difficult.

However, I definitely see the benefits of a Hal Chase quality to the game. This should be explored, if not included.

Raidergoo · 10-25-2008, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdgp2

Markus, would you mind programming this into OOTP10? At least make it an option for a team's players to throw the Series.

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ml#post2607118

PhillieFever · 10-25-2008, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sayheykid

Not joking. 7 members of the 1919 White Sox received bribes to throw the World Series. An 8th player (Bucky Weaver) was also thrown out of baseball, because he knew about it and didn't report it to his club. The most noted of these players was Shoeless Joe Jackson.

Yeah,I meant you were joking about throwing the series in OOTP.I'm sure nearly everyone here is familiar with the story of Shoeless Joe and the rest of the 1919 White Sox.

PhillieFever · 10-25-2008, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raidergoo

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ml#post2607118

Hal Chase is a perfect example of those times.Because he was so good and so underpaid which caused him to become disgruntled,he became a perfect target for mafia types who took full advantage of owner greed by using players to feed their own greed.Just a sad time in baseball history which obviously culminated with the 1919 White Sox throwing the World Series

John C · 10-25-2008, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhillieFever

Hal Chase is a perfect example of those times.Because he was so good and so underpaid which caused him to become disgruntled,he became a perfect target for mafia types who took full advantage of owner greed by using players to feed their own greed.Just a sad time in baseball history which obviously culminated with the 1919 White Sox throwing the World Series

I don't know if being underpaid was the true reason. He seemed to be crooked from the get-go, actually. The company he kept was along the same lines.

That said, he is definitely the face of crookedness of the early 1900s, and having players around like him would be tremendous.

Bluenoser · 10-25-2008, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John C

I don't know if being underpaid was the true reason. He seemed to be crooked from the get-go, actually. The company he kept was along the same lines.

That said, he is definitely the face of crookedness of the early 1900s, and having players around like him would be tremendous.

And then? If OOTP was programmed to have players like that, what would be the outcome? Would the AI suspend them for life if they're caught? How would it effect game play, management, etc.

Curious, because I don't really see the benefit, unless you also want the mafia, bookies, crooked gamblers, greedy owners, etc programmed into the game.

John C · 10-25-2008, 02:55 PM

It kind of ties into another suggestion I had before, with team and player chemistry. If other players are able to be affected, you could see things that we saw throughout history. And players could be suspended for life. I'd be down with that.

It should be very, very, very rare, of course.

RchW · 10-25-2008, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruceM

And then? If OOTP was programmed to have players like that, what would be the outcome? Would the AI suspend them for life if they're caught? How would it effect game play, management, etc.

Curious, because I don't really see the benefit, unless you also want the mafia, bookies, crooked gamblers, greedy owners, etc programmed into the game.

There are some of us who feel that OOTP already has this in it. I flip flop from time to time depending on my results. In my solo league after a run of 9WS in 13 years, I haven't won in 5 years and have not been in it in 4. In each of the last 4 seasons we could have been champions but my good players sucked.

See this old thread for more whining. http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...-playoffs.html

attackemu · 10-25-2008, 03:19 PM

One of the things about OOTP is that it's so open-ended that I think you can make this happen yourself. What I've done in the past is played out a history or fictional history and then, around the time when these things were happening in real life, keep an eye out for an underdog win in the WS. I've posted a poll or two in the past asking forum members to vote for which players on the losing team were throwing the games, given their regular season stats, WS stats, and Greed ratings. If you wanted to manually suspend/expel the "Black Sox" after '19 in your replay, you could do that too.

There's a lot that bugs me about how open-ended OOTP is, but I've found it's perfect for situations like this.

Thunder · 10-25-2008, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John C

I sincerely, wholeheartedly doubt that there is a *single* person on the OOTP forum (boxing not included) who does not know about 1919.

That said, the Sox will never throw the series in OOTP. It is impossible within the game's parameters, as such a proposition does not exist.

Boxing included!

John C · 10-25-2008, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunder

Boxing included!

There might be a few who don't know!

Thunder · 10-25-2008, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John C

There might be a few who don't know!

Hahaha . .hey Hartford, you might be right . . . over/under is 1.5

PhillieFever · 10-25-2008, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruceM

And then? If OOTP was programmed to have players like that, what would be the outcome? Would the AI suspend them for life if they're caught? How would it effect game play, management, etc.

Curious, because I don't really see the benefit, unless you also want the mafia, bookies, crooked gamblers, greedy owners, etc programmed into the game.

I'm with you on this Bruce.I don't feel this has a place in OOTP.

bigdgp2 · 10-25-2008, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhillieFever

I'm with you on this Bruce.I don't feel this has a place in OOTP.

I was joking about the feature request.

10-24-2008, 11:51 PM	#1
sayheykid Minors (Single A) Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Vancouver Posts: 79	Black Sox Just watched "Eight Men Out" for the 4th or 5th time. That got me curious. Has anyone played the historic year (1919)? Did the Sox throw the series?

10-25-2008, 12:00 PM	#5
John C Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Albion, RI Posts: 2,260 Infractions: 1/0 (0)	I sincerely, wholeheartedly doubt that there is a single person on the OOTP forum (boxing not included) who does not know about 1919. That said, the Sox will never throw the series in OOTP. It is impossible within the game's parameters, as such a proposition does not exist. __________________ Facebook \| My Videos

10-25-2008, 12:18 PM	#7
John C Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Albion, RI Posts: 2,260 Infractions: 1/0 (0)	I had this thought as well...with player personalities becoming more of a feature in games (Wolverine Studios, mainly), there should be more player-to-player relationships in the game. I asked for it to be included in OOTP10, but more of a "pitcher/catcher, double-play tandem" feature; if a catcher wasn't good with a particular pitcher, it could hurt his ability. If a SS and 2B don't have good chemistry, turning double plays could be more difficult. However, I definitely see the benefits of a Hal Chase quality to the game. This should be explored, if not included. __________________ Facebook \| My Videos

10-25-2008, 02:55 PM	#13
John C Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Albion, RI Posts: 2,260 Infractions: 1/0 (0)	It kind of ties into another suggestion I had before, with team and player chemistry. If other players are able to be affected, you could see things that we saw throughout history. And players could be suspended for life. I'd be down with that. It should be very, very, very rare, of course. __________________ Facebook \| My Videos

10-25-2008, 03:19 PM	#15
attackemu All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Brooklyn Posts: 970	One of the things about OOTP is that it's so open-ended that I think you can make this happen yourself. What I've done in the past is played out a history or fictional history and then, around the time when these things were happening in real life, keep an eye out for an underdog win in the WS. I've posted a poll or two in the past asking forum members to vote for which players on the losing team were throwing the games, given their regular season stats, WS stats, and Greed ratings. If you wanted to manually suspend/expel the "Black Sox" after '19 in your replay, you could do that too. There's a lot that bugs me about how open-ended OOTP is, but I've found it's perfect for situations like this. __________________ "Disguised in EMU's Blunt and sometimes hostile post is actually very sound advice. I think you would be wise to consider what he said." -ihatenames

10-25-2008, 04:54 AM	#2
Bluenoser Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In The Moment Posts: 13,682	Those sort of things aren't programmed into OOTP.