Batting order

[nyy26wc]

I am wondering whether position in the batting order can affect players performance, even if it doesn't show up in their morale.

Late in July 2008, I traded for Pat Burrell, who was on pace for a 40 HR season. I stuck him in my #6 spot in the order. Despite him having good moral ratings, his performance nosedived for me.

This year, I have Mark Teixeira in the #6 spot. He has good power ratings, good morale ratings, but can't hit the longball .

I am wondering if the moral of this is don't acquire good veterans with power if you can't give them a slot in the 3-4-5 spots in the order.

[Kelric]

Part of it may be park factors, superior pitching or just plain bad luck.

[Left-handed Badger]

Hell, most of lineups on OOTP look like a bunch of Whitey Herzog lineups. Power in the 3-4-5 slots would be a bonus. (I've had several OOTP teams where I have put a Wade Boggs type in the 3 hole and they pull off a 100 RBI season off like 6 HRs, heck one time I had guy like that leading the league in RBIs with 31 on May 1, and he only had 1 HR, which he hit on the last day of the month).

Anyhow, the way I generall do my lineup (if it helps)

1/2 OBP, OBP, OBP. Speed is good. But I dont necessarily worry about that up top. Personally I think in a power heavy lineup the 2 slot is the one spot where basestealing ability gets the most wasted. (why steal if you got Babe Ruth or Ted Williams or even a lesser 40 HR threat up?)

3/4/5 I'll look for power of course when applicable, but I also will look for other run driving assets, like GAP power.

6 on whatever is left, but unless my speed guys are OBP machines, I like to put them in the 6 and 7 slots, I have personally found I can use the stolen base more freely in the bottom of the order without feeling like I took the bat out of their hand. Of course anyone not in the first 5 slots end up here which goes without saying.


Though, for your problem. Crying about their spot in the order is intolerable. Deal with it or get splinters in your butt from sitting. (or traded if possible)

[Left-handed Badger]

I do have to mention because talking about batting orders always reminds me of it (and it is kind of funny). When I was a little kid, the church softball team my dad coached. He always used the RF who was 5'5 130 who practically had to muscle up to get it to the OFers as the cleanup hitter. Basically, it was because the team while it had some guys with occasional power, generally it didnt have anyone with power. Every other person he put cleanup would think they were a power and go into a slump muscling up to fly out to the warning track. My dad finally figured "there is no way this guy we'll ever think he is a power hitter. And well, it was unconventional but it worked.

[SteveP]

A player may complain to you about where they are in the batting order (this is a "feature" of the player morale/personality system). If the player's "feelings" are affected enough, it will affect his morale, which can affect his performance (but you'd see that his morale was poor). So there is a possibility of a small change in performance in that situation. Other than that, I have never seen lineup position affecting performance. It probably should more than it does in OOTP, since managers use this partly as a motivator.

[tysok]

Even though OOTP doesn't try to simulate any mental aspects, it does take into account other hitters and situations that are going on around him...

He could be getting "pitched around" more in the 6th slot. If you don't have a solid 7 hitter, and your 4-5 guys are doing well they may be pitching around your powerful 6 hitter... why deal with him? If he's being pitched around he'd have more trouble getting a solid hit (theoretically).

I've seen plenty of quirks like that in lineups in OOTP. I had a guy who couldn't hit for anything in the number 2 spot, leadoff he'd be good, or 7-9 he'd do well. He would have been a great number 2, but would never hit there. Another guy had no business hitting 5th, but because of injuries in April he was the best to put there for a while... and earned hitting 5th the rest of that year. The next year he was hitting as I would have expected and he fell back to the 7th spot.

[satchel]

Originally Posted by nyy26wc

I am wondering whether position in the batting order can affect players performance, even if it doesn't show up in their morale.

It seems to me to affect it, and some of the reasons that tysok lists are good explanations.

I am a firm believer in finding the right slot for the right player. For example, I won't make a rookie my number-one starting pitcher, regardless of how well he's doing. That's not the role for a rookie.

[nyy26wc]

Originally Posted by tysok

He could be getting "pitched around" more in the 6th slot. If you don't have a solid 7 hitter, and your 4-5 guys are doing well they may be pitching around your powerful 6 hitter... why deal with him? If he's being pitched around he'd have more trouble getting a solid hit (theoretically).

Pitching around him might have something to do with it.

It seems like whenever I pitch around someone, I just get him with a bad pitch. I almost never end up walking the guy. So, to me, it feels like cheating. It feels like it is a get out of the jam easy strategy option, so I've stopped using it.

[johnnybourbon]

Originally Posted by Left-handed Badger

1/2 OBP, OBP, OBP. Speed is good. But I dont necessarily worry about that up top. Personally I think in a power heavy lineup the 2 slot is the one spot where basestealing ability gets the most wasted. (why steal if you got Babe Ruth or Ted Williams or even a lesser 40 HR threat up?)

3/4/5 I'll look for power of course when applicable, but I also will look for other run driving assets, like GAP power.

6 on whatever is left, but unless my speed guys are OBP machines, I like to put them in the 6 and 7 slots, I have personally found I can use the stolen base more freely in the bottom of the order without feeling like I took the bat out of their hand. Of course anyone not in the first 5 slots end up here which goes without saying.

I hate to pull the "moneyball" card, but you can win in OOTP with on base guys. I don't recall if the way i do it is what moneyball says or a variation of it...but,
1+2 OBP 1&2 on the team
3- best remaining HR producer on the team
4- best remaining RBI producer on the team
5+6 OBPS remaining 1+2 on the team
7-9- remaining obp in descending order

also, this is a dynamic order. I generally reset it when i go on a losing streak. Switch to split l/r stats once the second month of the season hits. the position generally doesn't sway the individual's performance from their statistical mean, but equals better run production team/wise IMO

[Left-handed Badger]

Originally Posted by johnnybourbon

I hate to pull the "moneyball" card, but you can win in OOTP with on base guys. I don't recall if the way i do it is what moneyball says or a variation of it...but,
1+2 OBP 1&2 on the team
3- best remaining HR producer on the team
4- best remaining RBI producer on the team
5+6 OBPS remaining 1+2 on the team
7-9- remaining obp in descending order

also, this is a dynamic order. I generally reset it when i go on a losing streak. Switch to split l/r stats once the second month of the season hits. the position generally doesn't sway the individual's performance from their statistical mean, but equals better run production team/wise IMO

Actually, I agree with you on OBP in OOTP. I was just mentioning the #1 thing for each spot. Generally, I am top 3 in OBP with most teams I play with OOTP (at least once I make trades and get my types). If anything OBP is more important to me because I rarely finish high in HRs. I generally have a max. of 2 HR hitters in my lineup if I play with a limited budget team. I tend to be a first in SB/last in HR team, top 3 in OBP. Basically, a "what if Billy Beane and Whitey Herzog had a baby?"

[Curtis]

With '70s era teams (think Phillies, Dodgers, Reds, Athletics) my lineup runs like this:
1 — A speed guy with high OBP.
2 — Above average speed and OBP who can hit and run (low strikeout and walk rates).
3, 4, 5 — The four best slugging percentage guys go in these slots and 8. Highest OBP is 3, next 4, then 5.
6 — Second leadoff. A guy with speed and as high an OBP as possible.
7 — Some loser. If he can steal, bunt or hit and run, it's a plus.
8 — Slugging guy with the lowest OBP (think Dave Kingman).
9 — Pitcher (DHs are evil).