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Old 06-19-2009, 01:54 AM   #1 (permalink)
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3 way tie for wild card

So I just finished my 2009 sim and the Braves, Phillies, and Cardinals were all tied for the wild card. IN the AL, Yankees and Angels were also tied. The game scheduled a tie breaker for the AL the first day after the season and then on the second day after the season, the Phillies and Cardinals had a tiebreaker.

The Cards won and were awarded the wild card, leaving the Braves out in the cold. Should there have been additional games to decide this or is there some divisional tiebreaker between the Braves and Phillies that I'm missing?

Any advice would be appreciated.
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Old 06-19-2009, 07:26 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I actually have no idea what should happen. I'm not sure that it has ever happened.

I can see what it did. The Cardinals won and now have a better record than the Braves. But it doesn't seems fair to the Braves.
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Old 06-19-2009, 07:30 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I actually have no idea what should happen. I'm not sure that it has ever happened.

I can see what it did. The Cardinals won and now have a better record than the Braves. But it doesn't seems fair to the Braves.

I am not sure if it has happened before, but the MLB has a process to work out multiple way ties in these cases. Basically it involves a series of 1 game playoff games to decide it all out.

Here is a relevant article from ESPN a while back when there was possibility of having the top two teams in both the NL West and East tie with all four having the same record, as well as an alternate possibility for a 3 way wildcard tiebreaker:

NL could be in playoff tiebreakers until Thursday - MLB - ESPN
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Old 06-19-2009, 07:38 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I Googled it too and came up with a press release from mlb.com (albeit a somewhat dated one) that explains it: mlb.com tiebreaker release

Looks head-to-head record should be involved if possible. The team with the best head-to-head record against the other two should essentially get a 'bye' while the other two teams play one game. The winner of that game plays the team with the 'bye' to determine the wild card. If head-to-head can't solve it, basically there is a coin flip to determine who gets the bye.
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Old 06-19-2009, 09:45 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damonrusst View Post
So I just finished my 2009 sim and the Braves, Phillies, and Cardinals were all tied for the wild card. IN the AL, Yankees and Angels were also tied. The game scheduled a tie breaker for the AL the first day after the season and then on the second day after the season, the Phillies and Cardinals had a tiebreaker.
OOTP still does not resolve three-way ties correctly. I've mentioned this out many, many times, but for some reason the problem does not get fixed.

For the three-way tie, what MLB would have done is this: The three tied teams are designated as A, B, and C, based on their relative (not cumulative) head-to-head records. If no team emerges with an advantage, then a coin toss is used. The games played are as follows:

Day 1: B at A
Day 2: C at A/B

The winner of the Day 2 game wins the tiebreaker.


In your league, on the first day after the end of the regular season, you should have had played the AL division tiebreaker and the first game of the NL three-way tiebreaker. On the second day after the end of the regular season, the second and deciding game of the three-way NL tiebreakers should have been played.
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Old 06-19-2009, 10:48 AM   #6 (permalink)
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OOTP still does not resolve three-way ties correctly. I've mentioned this out many, many times, but for some reason the problem does not get fixed.

For the three-way tie, what MLB would have done is this: The three tied teams are designated as A, B, and C, based on their relative (not cumulative) head-to-head records. If no team emerges with an advantage, then a coin toss is used. The games played are as follows:

Day 1: B at A
Day 2: C at A/B

The winner of the Day 2 game wins the tiebreaker.


In your league, on the first day after the end of the regular season, you should have had played the AL division tiebreaker and the first game of the NL three-way tiebreaker. On the second day after the end of the regular season, the second and deciding game of the three-way NL tiebreakers should have been played.
This is the way it should be done.

As far as MLB in reality... they had no clue a couple years ago, and I doubt they'd have any more of a clue today. At one point late in the season a couple years ago it was looking possible to have a bunch of teams tie, and every report and/or show I heard talking about it had a different tie breaking scenario - no one had any clue how it would actually happen. Although that was a three or four way tie for both a division and the wild card slot so...
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Old 06-19-2009, 05:39 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Interesting. too bad it's not programmed in. Can we edit the schedules to make this happen on our own?
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Old 06-19-2009, 05:41 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Interesting. too bad it's not programmed in. Can we edit the schedules to make this happen on our own?
In my online leagues, I always sim until the last day, and then quick-sim each game to make sure any possible ties work themselves out. The Playoffs do not start until the regular season has officially "ended", so if you end up simming the games that could have potential impact on wildcards/playoff spots first, if any three way ties do occur, you can manually edit them into the schedule for the next few days the way you want.

The playoffs will hold off on setting themselves up until all "regular season" games have completed, including the ones you added by hand. The game will then base the playoff teams on the final records including the extra games you scheduled.

So short answer: yes.
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Old 06-19-2009, 05:54 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Thanks, I'll give that a shot
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Old 06-19-2009, 06:41 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I had a 3 way tie in the AL East and it had them play more than just 2 games. Maybe there was a wild card tiebreaker in there as well.
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Old 06-19-2009, 08:59 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I had something similar just happen in a test sim (fictional league) I am running. There was a 3 way tie for 1st in one of the divisions. They were not even close in the wild card race. The three teams played a sort of round robin tournament that saw each team play 6 games over the next 9 days to determine a winner. It seems that it does that round robin thing until 1 of the teams has a better record than both of the other teams after a full round of the tourney.

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Old 06-20-2009, 12:55 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tysok View Post
As far as MLB in reality... they had no clue a couple years ago, and I doubt they'd have any more of a clue today. At one point late in the season a couple years ago it was looking possible to have a bunch of teams tie, and every report and/or show I heard talking about it had a different tie breaking scenario - no one had any clue how it would actually happen.
MLB rules specifically outline what the process is in regards to two-, three-, and four-way ties. Only a five-way tie is not addressed in the rules. Should such a situation ever arise, MLB would work with the MLBPA to determine a tiebreaking scenario.

The 1973 NL East race had the possibility of a five-way tie, and a tiebreaking process was created for it, however in the end it was not needed.


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Originally Posted by naterg1 View Post
I had something similar just happen in a test sim (fictional league) I am running. There was a 3 way tie for 1st in one of the divisions. They were not even close in the wild card race. The three teams played a sort of round robin tournament that saw each team play 6 games over the next 9 days to determine a winner. It seems that it does that round robin thing until 1 of the teams has a better record than both of the other teams after a full round of the tourney.
That's sort of how a three-way tie would have been resolved back when a two-way tie was resolved with a best-of-three series. A three-way tie would have had a round-robin system in which a team had to lose twice before it was eliminated. The way it was set up, however, limited the total number of tiebreaking games played to either four or five, depending on the outcomes.
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Old 08-03-2009, 07:02 AM   #13 (permalink)
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This exact problem also happened to me three teams (Seattle Cleveland Detroit) were tied for the AL wildcard. A tie breaker game was played between seattle and cleveland with the winner (seattle) going on to the playoffs. Detroit didnt play.

IRL Seattle would have been at home to Detroit in the second game and the wimer of that should go to the playoffs.

On the point above about tiebreakers in MLB there are two types of scenarios.
if it is a case of seeding two teams for the playoffs with equal numbers of wins then head to head record is used. Or if two teams in the same division won 95 the decision as to who would be the wildcard and who would be the division winner would also be settled in this way.
If it is a question of deciding whther or not a team MAKES the playoffs then tiebreaker games are used.
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Old 08-03-2009, 12:28 PM   #14 (permalink)
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A coin toss should never be used by a sports league to determine who makes the post-season, or where a team is seeded. The idea is sickening. There are a thousand legitimate ways to break a tie, by looking at records, statistics, etc.
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Old 08-03-2009, 01:06 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I had a 3 way tie in the AL East and it had them play more than just 2 games. Maybe there was a wild card tiebreaker in there as well.
I previously posted my account of a three-way tie in the NL Central. It went five rounds before Cincy won, an additional 10 games for each team.

In theory, it could go on infinitely if each round is 1-1 for the three teams.

I don't mind this in a computer game, it was a welcome bit of fun.

But the real way of doing it should be available so all the anal-retentive types don't get their shorts so twisted they can't go to work in the morning.
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Old 08-03-2009, 02:02 PM   #16 (permalink)
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A coin toss should never be used by a sports league to determine who makes the post-season, or where a team is seeded. The idea is sickening. There are a thousand legitimate ways to break a tie, by looking at records, statistics, etc.
In the NFL, the coin toss is tiebreaking step #11 or #12, depending on whether it's a two-way tie or a tie involving three or more teams, or if it's a division or wild card tie.

Of course, the likelihood of ever getting to that step is extremely unlikely...
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