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Earlier versions of OOTP: General Discussions General chat about the game... |
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06-20-2012, 09:20 PM | #1 |
All Star Reserve
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 938
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12 RP Staff
I had some fun last year GM'ing a team with no true SP's. I decided to give it a go again this year.
Here's the basics: 12 RP Staff 1st round draft pick each year used on offense next 2-4 picks on RP's 3 man rotation on a 25-30 pitch count 9 man bullpen with no assigned roles There's fewer RP's generated in the draft pool, but the AI still won't draft them early, so it's as easy as ever to stack a bullpen. Cheap arms free $ for offense. #1 offense + #1 defense = lots of wins. I averaged 120 wins over 30 seasons, topping out at 128. Best individual season: 40-2-2 2.11 ERA over 200.2 innings with a .96 WHIP |
06-21-2012, 01:46 AM | #2 |
Minors (Single A)
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 86
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I'll try this out, Tony LaRussa.
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06-21-2012, 02:20 AM | #3 |
Hall Of Famer
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I have done this before. Except I had higher pitch counts. I had some relievers hitting 50 pitches and throwing 4 innings and then my pen finishing out the game.
You have to manage each game otherwise it becomes a mess if the AI tries it. I have always wondered why a real team does not try this. A team like the Royals or Pirates with nothing to lose. But unfortunately baseball and new ways of thinking cannot coexist. |
06-21-2012, 08:37 AM | #4 |
All Star Starter
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Washington, DC
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Mostly because draft prospects who project as terrible starters but superstar relievers don't really exist in real life, at least, not with any regularity. If you have a good pitching prospect you want them to give you as many innings as possible. Good pitching prospects are starters, and when they fail, they become relievers.
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"Sometimes, this is like going to a grocery store. Youve got a list until you get to the check-out stand. And then you start reading People magazine, and all this other [stuff] ends up in the basket." -Sandy Alderson on the MLB offseason |
06-21-2012, 09:48 AM | #5 |
Major Leagues
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 304
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Do you work for the Colorado Rockies?
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06-21-2012, 01:55 PM | #6 | |
All Star Reserve
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 938
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Quote:
Once you take away the set bullpen roles, the AI isn't too bad at managing it. I'm sure I could win a couple more games each season, but it's not worth the effort. |
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06-21-2012, 02:21 PM | #7 |
Minors (Double A)
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Amherst, NY
Posts: 145
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I am close to finishing season 1 of this strategy in a fictional league.
For the initial draft, I used my first 9 picks on offense, then picks 10-17 on relievers, then started picking hitting prospects. This season, I also packaged a lot of my prospects to upgrade three of my hitters. I have the best offense, and I actually went to a 13-man rotation for a little more flexibility. All of my starters are stars (or soon-to-be stars), and the only slight issue has been injuries to my hitters. I'm 93-51 with a 7 game lead. |
06-21-2012, 02:58 PM | #8 | |
Minors (Triple A)
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 223
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Quote:
With very few exceptions, this is true. And in an odd sort of way, the guy who proves the point is Bobby Thigpen. A college outfielder and closer at Mississippi State, Thigpen came out of the bullpen in his first minor-league season with the White Sox organization. He was 2-3, 1.64 with nine saves in two Class A stops; 28 appearances, 27 of them in relief. Then some genius with the White Sox decided to put Thigpen in a minor league rotation. The next year at Birmingham of the AA Southern League, Thigpen made 25 appearances, all starts. He was 8-11, 4.68. But called up toward the end of the season, Thigpen made 20 relief appearances for the big-league club, posting a 2-0 mark with seven saves and a 1.77 ERA. Idiotic rotation experiment ended, right? Wrong. One spring later and the Sox were still trying to make him a starter. He began the season in the Chicago bullpen, but was returned to AAA to make nine starts, through which he was 2-3, 6.15. ... Back in Chicago later that year he was returned to the bullpen, where he eventually appeared 51 times, going 7-5, 2.73 with 16 saves. Three seasons later he was setting what was then the MLB record for saves with 57. This is the kind of bass-ackwards thinking that can ruin a young pitcher, either by hurting his arm or killing his confidence. But it's the predominant attitude in baseball. "Wow, this kid really pitches gooood for an inning or two. Let's see if he can do nine." And yet almost nobody goes nine anymore. There are pitch- and inning-counts on young or previously fragile pitchers. And the way teams have become so reliant on their bullpens, I don't know why clubs are still so starter-focused and aren't actively developing promising relievers from the earliest levels of the minors. After all, some clubs are investing three or even four innings of each game in their bullpen. (Kansas City is a frequent example; Ned Yost is carrying eight relievers.) Why isn't there nearly equal focus on the cadre of pitchers who will work 33 to 44 percent of each nine-inning game, not to mention extra innings -- and arguably the most vital innings? ... Why is that group still comprised primarily of the best remaining guys from among your minor or Major League rotation failures? Last edited by GlennCraven; 06-21-2012 at 03:02 PM. |
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06-21-2012, 03:38 PM | #9 |
Hall Of Famer
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Daniel Bard also comes to mind as an example for that.
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06-22-2012, 11:42 AM | #10 |
Major Leagues
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 376
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I've always thought of this as a flaw in the OOTP design. I don't think it's a simple matter of modern baseball front offices being too conservative to try it. If this would work in real life, someone would have done it already, or even a more conservative version of it.
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06-22-2012, 01:28 PM | #11 | |
All Star Reserve
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 938
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Quote:
We'll never see anything like it because of $, saves, and the media. If you can't optimize the use of your closer, I can't see how you'd ever optimize the use of your entire staff. OOTP certainly has it flaws too. I'd still put the depth and consistency of RP's near the top. The draft is biggest problem though. These results are largely because the AI grossly undervalues relievers. |
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06-24-2012, 01:32 AM | #12 |
Minors (Rookie Ball)
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I did this with the Padres in a new MLB game.
I simmed the first season and had the fourth worst record in the league. I let all my arbitration eligible players leave for Free Agency. If somebody had an option and had bad defense, they were sent to Triple-A. Otherwise, I released and/or DFA'd them. I then signed a bunch of relief pitchers to have an even mix of six LHPs and six RHPs. I set a 30 pitch maximum for each pitcher. I went 92-70, second in the NL West (third best in the league), but I was eliminated in the NLDS in three games. I lead the league in ERA. It's important to remember to have guys in your rotation, at the max two, and have their position set to MR so they can pitch every other day without problems.
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