Can someone explain this?

[chrisj]

From: http://www.cbl.ootp-leagues.com/cbl/log1966.html

Pitching: Derek Hale
SS James Schmidt:
SINGLES to right
LF Wesley Gusman:
Lines into double play, 1-3!
RF Sean Pullum:
DOUBLES to the gap in right-center.
J. Schmidt scores.
1B Frank Strange:
Flies out to short right field.
Inning over... one run, 2 hits, no errors.
Score: Windsor 1, Quebec 0

[Henry]

It's a rare, but reoccuring issue always after double plays. The best way to rationalize it (until it's fixed) is to read it as an "almost" double play, but not quite... Blame the announcer :^)

[Kezzek]

Commsh chet?

Oh, wrong league.

[kq76]

Chris, did you happen to bring up with anyone close to Markus of what happened that may have cost Eric the 1st round? That really sounds like something that should be fixed.

[chrisj]

No, I haven't actually. Hopefully someone will notice it here...

Question: Is there some reason why, in the post-season, OOTP will accept an import without checking the date? The problem came up when an owner (actually, a couple) sent in an export for games 1 & 2... but, then being happy with his lineup, didn't send in one for game 3. So of course, when I imported the lineups, it accepted their import and reverted their starting pitcher back to the game 1 starter... who was now pitching on short rest, which isn't what they wanted.

[Henry]

Originally posted by chrisj
No, I haven't actually. Hopefully someone will notice it here...

Question: Is there some reason why, in the post-season, OOTP will accept an import without checking the date? The problem came up when an owner (actually, a couple) sent in an export for games 1 & 2... but, then being happy with his lineup, didn't send in one for game 3. So of course, when I imported the lineups, it accepted their import and reverted their starting pitcher back to the game 1 starter... who was now pitching on short rest, which isn't what they wanted.

This is the way I understand it to work.....

On any SIM, OOTP will look for an import for the game (or group of games) in question. If it doesn't find it, it turns some decisions (like pitching rotation) back over to the AI - it does NOT assume that the last lineup instructions should be used again - or should be used as a starting point for it's next decision. That would be very difficult to program.

As far as Kq's comment, is the reason you brought up this game because it cost you a drafting position ? That's tough - I know, but there's nothing to be done at this point since the game engine is going to be replaced in Version 6.

Henry

[kq76]

Originally posted by Henry
As far as Kq's comment, is the reason you brought up this game because it cost you a drafting position ? That's tough - I know, but there's nothing to be done at this point since the game engine is going to be replaced in Version 6.

No, it wasn't for me. It was for Eric (neef) in the CBL. We were in the playoffs and it may have cost him a 1st rd win. There's no guarantee that he would have won, but he probably would have had a better chance at least. He mortgaged his future at the beginning of the season by trading a very good prospect and a bunch of picks to me for my ace, one of the best in the league. I felt sorry for him, but really, I don't think there's anything Chris could have done not knowing that OOTP does this. If you resim, the others in the playoffs that won are losing out, so you can't do that. I realize it probably won't be fixed for OOTP5, but I hope it is for OOTP6.

EDIT: Maybe we need to tell people to submit an export, even if they have no changes. I guess that's the best way to handle it for v5.

[chrisj]

Originally posted by Henry
On any SIM, OOTP will look for an import for the game (or group of games) in question. If it doesn't find it, it turns some decisions (like pitching rotation) back over to the AI - it does NOT assume that the last lineup instructions should be used again - or should be used as a starting point for it's next decision. That would be very difficult to program.

I realize it does that during the regular season, but during the playoffs it doesn't seem to do that. It just imports the last lineup submitted (try it - when you're in the playoffs, export a lineup before game 1, sim the first game, then import your lineup before game 2 - it will go back to the game 1 starter).

Originally posted by Henry
As far as Kq's comment, is the reason you brought up this game because it cost you a drafting position ? That's tough - I know, but there's nothing to be done at this point since the game engine is going to be replaced in Version 6.

Oh, it didn't cost me anything. But it may have cost one of the owners in my league his playoffs since his ace pitched in game 1, then pitched (while still tired) in game 3, basically throwing off his whole rotation. Needless to say, he wasn't very pleased since this was probably his last chance to contend for a number of seasons.

I realize not much can/will be done since (I believe) the last patch has come out, but it'd be nice if OOTP6 checked to make sure playoff exports were for the correct date.

[kq76]

dola...

Originally posted by Henry
On any SIM, OOTP will look for an import for the game (or group of games) in question. If it doesn't find it, it turns some decisions (like pitching rotation) back over to the AI - it does NOT assume that the last lineup instructions should be used again - or should be used as a starting point for it's next decision. That would be very difficult to program.

I don't understand how the AI would do that though. If I remember correctly, it pitched pitcher A in games 1 and 3 and pitcher B in games 2 and 4, and pitcher C in game 5. Eric had 4 solid SPs. If it works as you say, why in the world would it pitch pitcher A and B in games 1-4?? What chrisj suggests what happened seems to be the only reasonable explanation, that it used the old export.

Chris, I see those boxscores are not on the site anymore (rd 2 is up). Do we have rd 1 somewhere to show Henry?

[chrisj]

Yep..

Game 1:
http://cbl.ootp-leagues.com/cbl/box1955.html
BC starts ace Jim Sebastian

Game 2:
http://cbl.ootp-leagues.com/cbl/box1956.html
BC starts their other ace, Alan Douglas

Game 3:
http://cbl.ootp-leagues.com/cbl/box1957.html
BC pitches Jim Sebastian on 2 days rest (although he does manage to last 8 innings).

Game 4:
http://cbl.ootp-leagues.com/cbl/box1958.html
BC starts Alan Douglas on 2 days rest, only pitches 3.1 innings (giving up 2 runs)

Game 5:
http://cbl.ootp-leagues.com/cbl/box1959.html
BC starts Derek Sturgeon on full rest...

Ideally, for BC, they would have liked to go Sebastian/Douglas/Sturgeon/Sebastian/Douglas..

[Henry]

Originally posted by kq76
Chris, I see those boxscores are not on the site anymore (rd 2 is up). Do we have rd 1 somewhere to show Henry?

Yes, please see if you can find the boxscores and logs for these games... also what you sent as far as instructions to the best of your knowledge. The rotation issue has been changed multiple times - part of the reason is because everyone has a different idea on how it should work....

Maybe in V6 we could set the game default to 1 or 2 different methods, explaining how they work - then also provide a manual override.

I'm still not sure if I believe what happenes if a lineup isn't sent in - but I'd be willing to look at your results and see if I can confirm it one way or the other.

Henry

[D Love]

This happened in my league. I just imported new rosters during the playoffs without deleting the old ones. I had a pitcher start Games 4 & 5 of the LDS, with 1 day rest in between. He allowed a total of 2 runs in 15 IP. Not sure why he wasn't tired, but I do know that he was started in Game 5 again because I imported that old export and the game didn't reject it.

[chrisj]

Originally posted by Henry
Yes, please see if you can find the boxscores and logs for these games...

Already done... see the post above you.

Originally posted by Henry
I'm still not sure if I believe what happenes if a lineup isn't sent in - but I'd be willing to look at your results and see if I can confirm it one way or the other.

Feel free to test it out in a solo league of yours - I just did so myself. Here is exactly what I did:


- Sim until the playoffs, and take over a team and set it to human control.
- Set your pitching staf (and just for fun, I set it up so that my #3 pitcher would start game #1)
- Export your lineup
- Sim game 1
- Look at your pitching staff... it says starter #4 should pitch next, which is fine and correct.
- Import your lineup
- It now says pitcher #3 should pitch next... and if you go and start your game, he will.

You could continue.... sim game 2 (with #3 starting again) and move onto game 3 and import your lineup once again... you'll find #3 will be starting once more.

Hope that makes sense... If not I can try and explain it better.

[Henry]

Thanks.... I'll run through this tonight and try and "make sense" of it

[Henry]

UPDATE : My error. I ran the test on my laptop and realized I didn't have 5.14"B" loaded. Reran the test and the issues I posted earlier were not present... s I erased them not to confuse anyone.

It does seem, however, that if you set the game to use the "highest rested player" with a 4 man rotation in the playoffs, the game will still go through the 4 man rotation....

This isn't exatly what chrisj described - but it doesn't seem quite right... I'll do more testing in the next few days - maybe we can compare notes.

Henry