Talk to us Markus? - Page 2

Dan Theman · 04-17-2005, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malleus Dei

... in fact, I suspect that we testers never even found some of them in EW2.

I loved the game, MD, but I think I can unfortunately confirm that one being the case

I'm curious about the testing this time around, as well - there are going to be totally new bugs to iron out while many of the old ones will just vanish withe new system in place. But I've got faith, my good man.

PS - I got $482.94 worth of enjoyment out of the game, give or take a little.

HolyCow98 · 04-17-2005, 05:55 AM

Its kinda a catch-22....

Since the next version is supposed to be a re-write of the code.....I would imagine a ton of work will be involved that is going to take the development crew ...IE Markus...to hammer out....

However...are there still things in OOTP 6 to complain about....sure...and to be honest...there were things to complain about 5 and 4 and so and so forth. Is there enough for a couple of more patches...yep.

As was mentioned earlier....from a business side...there is a little more weight for Markus to spend time on the former rather than the latter.

I think Markus has for some time wanted to see OOTP and his company grow and expand. Season Ticket Baseball....creating .400 software studios...and now the merger with SI....to me were all attempts to expand OOTP reach and market. In someways...the last two of those projects took his attention away from the current product. I don't think he feels OOTP is exactly the way he wants it...just as most of us feel.

I guess my point is...if he focused solely on polishing any of the versions of OOTP to the point where there little or anything to complain about...we would probably still be on OOTP 4 or 5. From a "he probably has bills to pay" perspective...I certainly see where he is coming from. The thing I look for is...does he patch the game as much as the majority of the other game companies that I buy and play...yeah...if not more so. Do I have complaints about all of my games...yep. Were they still worth it...some of them...OOTP being one of them.

(disclaimer...3:55 AM here...and still no sleep...zzzzzzz)

BigCity · 04-17-2005, 09:43 AM

Just

worth here, but this issue follows the same path each time it's brought up, and the points are always the same...

At some point between versions, there no longer is any middle ground. At this point in the process, either Marcus spends time fixing V6 (for which there is no monetary gain and which very likely means on his own time outside of his 40 hour+ week for SI), or, he spends it on V7 which is a total rewrite and has significantly more promise for monetary gain than V6 even on its initial release. No matter what game company your talking about, that "threshhold" is reached, and effort is switched to the new version.

As far as the customer base of ANY product, there is a percentage that insists on perfection for the price paid, those that accept something less than perfect if they are still satisfied with the overall product, and many combinations of others that understand business and profits, as well as those that expect more, feeling the business aspects are the developer's problem.

Bottom line is all customers can never be happy unless (1) the price is considered reasonable to everyone, (2) the product is perfect or made to be perfect and (3) enhancements are provided free.

The above product, besides never having been made, would also never have to be replaced.

Maybe it's because I'm from an older generation, but I've never expected perfection in any product, and many times paid more than I wished to for something I wanted more than the price mattered to me. I've always understood that business decisions, or a vast number of ANY decisions out of my control could result in something I was less than happy with... but in the end, I made yet another choice, with more information, and many times decided to purchase anyway. The decision was, in the end, always mine to make.

I have no problem with those here that wish to complain about the game, the price, the patches, or anything else - but what those that do must understand is that it is ALSO our right, to defend the product, the price, the patches, or anything else if we wish.

And in doing so we are both right

jaxmagicman · 04-17-2005, 10:13 AM

Post number 69 in this thread shows just how right I can be sometimes:

OOTP6 - speed up release ? - OPEN for comments

Sweed · 04-17-2005, 11:01 AM

Well, I think Mal, BigCity, and HolyCow98 summed it up quite well. V6 is complete and no game is going to fix everything. The best thing you can hope for is a developer that really cares about his game. In my mind there is no doubt that Markus wants oopt to be the very best.

I don't buy a lot of games but this year did a little more than usual. I found that
Markus is still one of the best when it comes to caring about his creation. The patches may not have come as fast as we were used to but it's understandable
with the SI move along with the total rewrite of the code. Did he make a mistake on h2h? Of course and he admitted that so it's time to move on.

Now back on topic to the original post

I like the way this is being handled by SI. Some early screens and then wait until they are ready to tell you something concrete. Instead of something they plan on or think will be in the game that doesn't make it. If they do this like EHM and release early betas to the community then we will be seeing the
game itself a couple of months (?) before the actual release of the finished product. This will allow us to test the game and get quicker and better results on issues that we find.

Myself, I can't wait for the SI version to get in my hands. After looking at the EHM demos my hopes are high for the new oopt and what it might contain.

Draft Dodger · 04-17-2005, 11:10 AM

I like that Markus has taken the time to fix as many of the bugs as he can. I'm cool with that effort.

I do hope that with OOTP7 more time is spent during the testing process to nip more of these bugs in the ass before the thing is released.

Malleus Dei · 04-17-2005, 12:12 PM

Some well written points, guys. I remember OOTP1, so the thought of OOTP7 makes me very nervous, but I also have hopes for it. Time will tell.

In the meantime, my wish is that all of you have as much fun playing 6.12 as I do.

eborix · 04-17-2005, 12:35 PM

All in all I am happy with OOTP 6. The lack of sound is disappointing to me. When you say no game is out there that all the bugs get fixed, I know that you are right, But there are games that I play that I have not noticed any bugs in. The only "bug" that I have noticed in OOTP6 is the sound issue. I have many (over 20) other games that came out before DX9.0c that have sound, a few (3 or 4) had sound problems for me after DX9.0c. All of those have been patched to work except OOTP6. So while there may be problems in DX9.0c and SP2, it is possible to fix it. allowing for the fact that I originally reported the sound bug way back when DX9.0c was released, there has been a lot of time to look at it.

As for H2H, I have no interest in it, but what has happened with this has caused me to have doubt on any claim on the pages of this site about what is in or will be in anything produced byOOTP developments.

Dan Theman · 04-17-2005, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eborix

As for H2H, I have no interest in it, but what has happened with this has caused me to have doubt on any claim on the pages of this site about what is in or will be in anything produced byOOTP developments.

I think this more than anything else - whether it's SI's policy, Markus' lovelife, the phases of the moon, etc. - is why more news hasn't been released. What's already been accomplished is out there for us to see. The rest is on its way and what shape that will finally take has yet to be seen.

04-17-2005, 10:13 AM	#24 (permalink)
jaxmagicman Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Retired defloration-maker living in Myrtle Beach, SC Posts: 7,481 Thanked 357x in 315 posts	Post number 69 in this thread shows just how right I can be sometimes: OOTP6 - speed up release ? - OPEN for comments __________________ See ID

04-17-2005, 11:10 AM	#26 (permalink)
Draft Dodger Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: formerly of the OTBL Posts: 4,114	I like that Markus has taken the time to fix as many of the bugs as he can. I'm cool with that effort. I do hope that with OOTP7 more time is spent during the testing process to nip more of these bugs in the ass before the thing is released. __________________ Draft Dodger (Anarchy: Anything goes. The Draft Dodger viewpoint.) Sophmoric[sic] Member of the OOTP Boards (It's not OOTP; it's your computer) 15 GB Webhosting for $6.95 a month IMO we are best off abandoning that sinking ship that is Off Topic to the rats infesting it and just starting a whole new Baseball Forum from scratch.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

04-17-2005, 05:55 AM	#22 (permalink)
HolyCow98 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Douglasville, GA Posts: 2,603 Thanked 1x in 1 post	Its kinda a catch-22.... Since the next version is supposed to be a re-write of the code.....I would imagine a ton of work will be involved that is going to take the development crew ...IE Markus...to hammer out.... However...are there still things in OOTP 6 to complain about....sure...and to be honest...there were things to complain about 5 and 4 and so and so forth. Is there enough for a couple of more patches...yep. As was mentioned earlier....from a business side...there is a little more weight for Markus to spend time on the former rather than the latter. I think Markus has for some time wanted to see OOTP and his company grow and expand. Season Ticket Baseball....creating .400 software studios...and now the merger with SI....to me were all attempts to expand OOTP reach and market. In someways...the last two of those projects took his attention away from the current product. I don't think he feels OOTP is exactly the way he wants it...just as most of us feel. I guess my point is...if he focused solely on polishing any of the versions of OOTP to the point where there little or anything to complain about...we would probably still be on OOTP 4 or 5. From a "he probably has bills to pay" perspective...I certainly see where he is coming from. The thing I look for is...does he patch the game as much as the majority of the other game companies that I buy and play...yeah...if not more so. Do I have complaints about all of my games...yep. Were they still worth it...some of them...OOTP being one of them. (disclaimer...3:55 AM here...and still no sleep...zzzzzzz)

04-17-2005, 09:43 AM	#23 (permalink)
BigCity All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: South Shore, Great Lakes Posts: 1,175	Just worth here, but this issue follows the same path each time it's brought up, and the points are always the same... At some point between versions, there no longer is any middle ground. At this point in the process, either Marcus spends time fixing V6 (for which there is no monetary gain and which very likely means on his own time outside of his 40 hour+ week for SI), or, he spends it on V7 which is a total rewrite and has significantly more promise for monetary gain than V6 even on its initial release. No matter what game company your talking about, that "threshhold" is reached, and effort is switched to the new version. As far as the customer base of ANY product, there is a percentage that insists on perfection for the price paid, those that accept something less than perfect if they are still satisfied with the overall product, and many combinations of others that understand business and profits, as well as those that expect more, feeling the business aspects are the developer's problem. Bottom line is all customers can never be happy unless (1) the price is considered reasonable to everyone, (2) the product is perfect or made to be perfect and (3) enhancements are provided free. The above product, besides never having been made, would also never have to be replaced. Maybe it's because I'm from an older generation, but I've never expected perfection in any product, and many times paid more than I wished to for something I wanted more than the price mattered to me. I've always understood that business decisions, or a vast number of ANY decisions out of my control could result in something I was less than happy with... but in the end, I made yet another choice, with more information, and many times decided to purchase anyway. The decision was, in the end, always mine to make. I have no problem with those here that wish to complain about the game, the price, the patches, or anything else - but what those that do must understand is that it is ALSO our right, to defend the product, the price, the patches, or anything else if we wish. And in doing so we are both right

04-17-2005, 11:01 AM	#25 (permalink)
Sweed Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 2,398 Thanked 277x in 127 posts	Well, I think Mal, BigCity, and HolyCow98 summed it up quite well. V6 is complete and no game is going to fix everything. The best thing you can hope for is a developer that really cares about his game. In my mind there is no doubt that Markus wants oopt to be the very best. I don't buy a lot of games but this year did a little more than usual. I found that Markus is still one of the best when it comes to caring about his creation. The patches may not have come as fast as we were used to but it's understandable with the SI move along with the total rewrite of the code. Did he make a mistake on h2h? Of course and he admitted that so it's time to move on. Now back on topic to the original post I like the way this is being handled by SI. Some early screens and then wait until they are ready to tell you something concrete. Instead of something they plan on or think will be in the game that doesn't make it. If they do this like EHM and release early betas to the community then we will be seeing the game itself a couple of months (?) before the actual release of the finished product. This will allow us to test the game and get quicker and better results on issues that we find. Myself, I can't wait for the SI version to get in my hands. After looking at the EHM demos my hopes are high for the new oopt and what it might contain.

04-17-2005, 12:35 PM	#28 (permalink)
eborix Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 205 Thanked 10x in 7 posts	All in all I am happy with OOTP 6. The lack of sound is disappointing to me. When you say no game is out there that all the bugs get fixed, I know that you are right, But there are games that I play that I have not noticed any bugs in. The only "bug" that I have noticed in OOTP6 is the sound issue. I have many (over 20) other games that came out before DX9.0c that have sound, a few (3 or 4) had sound problems for me after DX9.0c. All of those have been patched to work except OOTP6. So while there may be problems in DX9.0c and SP2, it is possible to fix it. allowing for the fact that I originally reported the sound bug way back when DX9.0c was released, there has been a lot of time to look at it. As for H2H, I have no interest in it, but what has happened with this has caused me to have doubt on any claim on the pages of this site about what is in or will be in anything produced byOOTP developments.