Rogers Hornsby Still playing at 51

Qrusher14242 · 06-05-2006, 04:27 AM

In my new Historical sim with the new DB, Rogers Hornsby is still playing at 51. I have the aging all set to 1.0. Here's his career line so far:

AVG: .317
Hits: 4776
AB: 15,004
G: 1211
2B: 866
HR: 485
RBI: 2349
VORP: 1480.0

Anyone seen anyone else play over 50?

PerfectMisnomer · 06-05-2006, 06:08 AM

Amazing, at age 45 he hits .345.

redmarkYankees · 06-05-2006, 07:08 AM

Those lines from 1942 onwards mirror what I've seen in my tests and I posted briefly about elsewhere.

It seems fielding ratings drop much earlier than hitting ratings, which are maintained too long. Almost like the game is trying to create DHs. HOF-calibre players - in a non-DH era - should retire, rather than pinch-hitting for several years.

Raidergoo · 06-05-2006, 07:22 AM

Wonder if the WW2 monster bit him and he was "invited" to hang around for a few more years.

swampdragon · 06-05-2006, 09:03 AM

What is the injury setting? Unless injuries are on normal, I don't think this is something to worry about. I'm very happy to see that Markus has pushed the development cliff so far back.

CONN CHRIS · 06-05-2006, 09:20 AM

In an odd way, I kind of like it that some players can hang on to an advanced age in our little alternate universes.

In one of the prior iterations of Puresim, if a player was kept on the big team roster and continually offered new contracts (human owned team only), you would occasionally get a 25 to 30 year career.

I once had Victor Starffin (Russian born pitching star in the early days of Nippon baseball) on my team. He debuted at age 20 or so and had a great career. By 38 or so, he became quite average and flat out stunk by age 42 or so. I was so attached to having him on my team that I kept offering him contracts. I used a 4 man rotation and limited relief roles (old school) so it wasn't too hard to hide him on the team. I would bring him in for mop-up situations (either way) and pull him after he put a runner on (to try and not torpedo his career ERA which was stellar). He retired at 53 IIRC

redmarkYankees · 06-05-2006, 09:34 AM

It's certainly good that players aren't all hitting terminal decline at 35, but 51 might be taking things a little far... Anyway, IMO it just needs a tweak so that HOF-calibre players who have effectively become DHs in a non-DH era should retire, not sit on the bench for 5 years.

Bobbuttons · 06-05-2006, 09:55 AM

If this gets tinkered with in the patch, I will be very disappointed. Many past MLB players have stayed in the game into their mid to late 40's. In the case of Hornsby above, it's not as though he was still a superstar at age 50. After his big year at 45, he wasn't an everyday player anymore. If the very rare person can stick it out until 50 or so as a bench player or reliever, I don't mind. If we start seeing them in the rotation and starting everyday.. that's another thing entirely.

I have a fondness for ballplayers that stick in the league for a long time. In my fictional historical replay on 6.5, Cal Eldred hung around out of the bullpen for the last 13 years of his career. He pitched very well through his 40's and retired just shy of his 51st birthday.

Draft Dodger · 06-05-2006, 10:02 AM

looks like at the age of 49 and 50 he wasn't just pinch hitting. he had more games than atbats...which means he was being used as a pinch runner or defensive replacement.

50 year old PH, I can handle. 50 year old PR or defensive replacements I'm not too fond of.

redmarkYankees · 06-05-2006, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

looks like at the age of 49 and 50 he wasn't just pinch hitting. he had more games than atbats...which means he was being used as a pinch runner or defensive replacement.

50 year old PH, I can handle. 50 year old PR or defensive replacements I'm not too fond of.

I'd be surprised if he was being used as defensive replacement; I'm sure from my tests that the reason he lost the starters position is that his defensive ratings had gone. Speed may not have done - so pinch running.

Draft Dodger · 06-05-2006, 10:08 AM

just noticed too - 30 years for the Cardinals, then goes to Boston. I hope they didn't trade him

CONN CHRIS · 06-05-2006, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobbuttons

If this gets tinkered with in the patch, I will be very disappointed. Many past MLB players have stayed in the game into their mid to late 40's.

I sure hope that career end dates don't become utterly predictable. With all the flexibility in this version I was hoping to see a player every now and then like Luke Easter who hung on in the minor leagues into his fifties and was still smashing home runs in softball games well into his sixties.

Chappy · 06-05-2006, 10:47 AM

Fake Horsby is surely an inspiration to Julio Franco.

CBL-Commish · 06-05-2006, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redmarkYankees

It's certainly good that players aren't all hitting terminal decline at 35, but 51 might be taking things a little far... Anyway, IMO it just needs a tweak so that HOF-calibre players who have effectively become DHs in a non-DH era should retire, not sit on the bench for 5 years.

Except that there are HOFers who spent the last five years of their career as pinch hitters or part-time players in a non-DH league. Enos Slaughter, for example.

Julio Franco isn't quite a HOF-caliber player, but he used to be an All Star shortstop. His fielding skills have deteriorated to the point where he's a first baseman/pinch hitter yet he's hung on in the NL as a part-timer for nearly a decade.

And if you expand your criteria to eras or universes where independent minors were more common (say real life, prior to 1930) you'd often find HOF type players spending the last five or ten years of their careers through their mid-40s still playing in lower leagues.

redmarkYankees · 06-05-2006, 11:00 AM

Fair enough. I don't want every HOF-calibre player to retire as soon as he loses effectiveness in defense, just appears to be a little too far the other way at the moment. There must be plenty of RL examples of players who didn't want to sit on the bench or eke out a few years just to get another 200 hits, but retired as soon as they thought they were past their best. For instance, pitchers seem to be doing this more in game than hitters do. In 3 sims that went beyond a few seasons, Cy Young always seemed to retire when still a starter, and still effective.

Gastric ReFlux · 06-05-2006, 11:49 AM

Guess he's obsessed about reaching 5000 hits.

rogmax11 · 06-05-2006, 12:45 PM

Stolen base totals, as well as the arc relative to aging, are off-the-charts wrong.

JWay · 06-05-2006, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogmax11

Stolen base totals, as well as the arc relative to aging, are off-the-charts wrong.

i noticed it too

Qrusher14242 · 06-05-2006, 02:48 PM

I also had ruth still around until he was 44(i think). His Contact rating in his last year was 96!

Draft Dodger · 06-05-2006, 02:49 PM

1,000 homers. Eat it Barry

06-05-2006, 04:27 AM	#1 (permalink)
Qrusher14242 All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: CA Posts: 979	Rogers Hornsby Still playing at 51 In my new Historical sim with the new DB, Rogers Hornsby is still playing at 51. I have the aging all set to 1.0. Here's his career line so far: AVG: .317 Hits: 4776 AB: 15,004 G: 1211 2B: 866 HR: 485 RBI: 2349 VORP: 1480.0 Anyone seen anyone else play over 50? Attached Images

06-05-2006, 06:08 AM	#2 (permalink)
PerfectMisnomer All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,223	Amazing, at age 45 he hits .345. __________________ PCBL -- Commissioner, Troy Heroes GM Current Avatar: SP Keith Ellison 20-8, 2.59 ERA and CL All-Star Game Starter

06-05-2006, 07:08 AM	#3 (permalink)
redmarkYankees All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,126	Those lines from 1942 onwards mirror what I've seen in my tests and I posted briefly about elsewhere. It seems fielding ratings drop much earlier than hitting ratings, which are maintained too long. Almost like the game is trying to create DHs. HOF-calibre players - in a non-DH era - should retire, rather than pinch-hitting for several years. __________________ In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act. George Orwell

06-05-2006, 07:22 AM	#4 (permalink)
Raidergoo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: 39.84 N -84.12 W Posts: 7,220	Wonder if the WW2 monster bit him and he was "invited" to hang around for a few more years. __________________

06-05-2006, 09:03 AM	#5 (permalink)
swampdragon All Star Starter Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Lonely Mountain Posts: 1,725	What is the injury setting? Unless injuries are on normal, I don't think this is something to worry about. I'm very happy to see that Markus has pushed the development cliff so far back. __________________ "The only way to oblige men to speak well of us is to act well." -- Voltaire

06-05-2006, 09:20 AM	#6 (permalink)
CONN CHRIS Moderator* Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 21,095	In an odd way, I kind of like it that some players can hang on to an advanced age in our little alternate universes. In one of the prior iterations of Puresim, if a player was kept on the big team roster and continually offered new contracts (human owned team only), you would occasionally get a 25 to 30 year career. I once had Victor Starffin (Russian born pitching star in the early days of Nippon baseball) on my team. He debuted at age 20 or so and had a great career. By 38 or so, he became quite average and flat out stunk by age 42 or so. I was so attached to having him on my team that I kept offering him contracts. I used a 4 man rotation and limited relief roles (old school) so it wasn't too hard to hide him on the team. I would bring him in for mop-up situations (either way) and pull him after he put a runner on (to try and not torpedo his career ERA which was stellar). He retired at 53 IIRC __________________ REC World Prizefighter Rankings

06-05-2006, 09:34 AM	#7 (permalink)
redmarkYankees All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,126	It's certainly good that players aren't all hitting terminal decline at 35, but 51 might be taking things a little far... Anyway, IMO it just needs a tweak so that HOF-calibre players who have effectively become DHs in a non-DH era should retire, not sit on the bench for 5 years. __________________ In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act. George Orwell

06-05-2006, 09:55 AM	#8 (permalink)
Bobbuttons Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Akron, OH, My Own Personal Hell Posts: 2,799	If this gets tinkered with in the patch, I will be very disappointed. Many past MLB players have stayed in the game into their mid to late 40's. In the case of Hornsby above, it's not as though he was still a superstar at age 50. After his big year at 45, he wasn't an everyday player anymore. If the very rare person can stick it out until 50 or so as a bench player or reliever, I don't mind. If we start seeing them in the rotation and starting everyday.. that's another thing entirely. I have a fondness for ballplayers that stick in the league for a long time. In my fictional historical replay on 6.5, Cal Eldred hung around out of the bullpen for the last 13 years of his career. He pitched very well through his 40's and retired just shy of his 51st birthday. __________________ Back from outer space. GM-South Carolina Strom Thurmonds OTBA (overall record: 1,243-1,349) 2019: 83-79 2018: 97-65 (Banned Division Champs!) 2017: 102-60 (OTBA WORLD CHAMPIONS!) 2016: 89-73 2015: 82-80 2014: 104-58 (Banned Division Champs!) 2013: 91-71 2012: 53-109 2011: 96-66 2010: 77-85 2009: 71-91 2008: 77-85 2007: 50-112 2006: 54-108 2005: 71-91 2004: 59-103

06-05-2006, 10:02 AM	#9 (permalink)
Draft Dodger Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: formerly of the OTBL Posts: 4,113	looks like at the age of 49 and 50 he wasn't just pinch hitting. he had more games than atbats...which means he was being used as a pinch runner or defensive replacement. 50 year old PH, I can handle. 50 year old PR or defensive replacements I'm not too fond of. __________________ Draft Dodger (Anarchy: Anything goes. The Draft Dodger viewpoint.) Sophmoric[sic] Member of the OOTP Boards (It's not OOTP; it's your computer) 15 GB Webhosting for $6.95 a month IMO we are best off abandoning that sinking ship that is Off Topic to the rats infesting it and just starting a whole new Baseball Forum from scratch.

06-05-2006, 10:08 AM	#11 (permalink)
Draft Dodger Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: formerly of the OTBL Posts: 4,113	just noticed too - 30 years for the Cardinals, then goes to Boston. I hope they didn't trade him __________________ Draft Dodger (Anarchy: Anything goes. The Draft Dodger viewpoint.) Sophmoric[sic] Member of the OOTP Boards (It's not OOTP; it's your computer) 15 GB Webhosting for $6.95 a month IMO we are best off abandoning that sinking ship that is Off Topic to the rats infesting it and just starting a whole new Baseball Forum from scratch.

06-05-2006, 10:47 AM	#13 (permalink)
Chappy Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 2,600	Fake Horsby is surely an inspiration to Julio Franco. __________________ NPBL - Commissioner - Pennsylvania Freedom

06-05-2006, 11:00 AM	#15 (permalink)
redmarkYankees All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,126	Fair enough. I don't want every HOF-calibre player to retire as soon as he loses effectiveness in defense, just appears to be a little too far the other way at the moment. There must be plenty of RL examples of players who didn't want to sit on the bench or eke out a few years just to get another 200 hits, but retired as soon as they thought they were past their best. For instance, pitchers seem to be doing this more in game than hitters do. In 3 sims that went beyond a few seasons, Cy Young always seemed to retire when still a starter, and still effective. __________________ In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act. George Orwell

06-05-2006, 11:49 AM	#16 (permalink)
Gastric ReFlux Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Member #3409 Posts: 8,313	Guess he's obsessed about reaching 5000 hits.

06-05-2006, 12:45 PM	#17 (permalink)
rogmax11 All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 1,201	Stolen base totals, as well as the arc relative to aging, are off-the-charts wrong.

06-05-2006, 02:48 PM	#19 (permalink)
Qrusher14242 All Star Reserve Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: CA Posts: 979	I also had ruth still around until he was 44(i think). His Contact rating in his last year was 96! Attached Images

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06-05-2006, 02:49 PM	#20 (permalink)
Draft Dodger Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: formerly of the OTBL Posts: 4,113	1,000 homers. Eat it Barry __________________ Draft Dodger (Anarchy: Anything goes. The Draft Dodger viewpoint.) Sophmoric[sic] Member of the OOTP Boards (It's not OOTP; it's your computer) 15 GB Webhosting for $6.95 a month IMO we are best off abandoning that sinking ship that is Off Topic to the rats infesting it and just starting a whole new Baseball Forum from scratch.