Fictional League consistent with Major League History

fearofmimes · 06-20-2006, 02:39 PM

On and off since OOTP4 I've been messing around trying to create a fictional league that mimics the results of major league baseball over the course of the years (since some reasonable point in the deadball era). With previous versions I ran into roadblocks that were pretty fundamental and I ended up giving up. Now I'm trying again with OOTPB 2006.

I have started going through configuration options with the goal of creating different games to allow testing of different scenarios. The goal of the configuration and testing would be to allow the league to develop over time (with minor changes to options over time to mirror changes in baseball) with results that are roughly consistent with those of major league baseball. Basically, I want everything with the league to be as close to the conditions of actual major leage baseball except for the actual players.

My particular interest in this effort is that it provides a foundation for exploring the game in a little more detail than I have been able to in the past. Also, I expect that it could help me build confidence in the game engine and AI so that I can pursue other ideas down the road. I'm also open to the possibility that my hopes for such confidence could be crushed as they were with past versions.

The ultimate result of this could be one or more quickstarts, which could be of interest to others. Also, I'm expecting that there are a few issues with the game engine and AI model that will keep me from achieving all that I desire, but hopefully with the new version the issues won't be as fundamental as they were with past versions (like the problems with double headers until OOTP6.5).

The elements that I expect to model are the following:

Teams and their cities (tracking changes over time)
Stadiums with reasonable park factors (changing over time as well)
Roster rules and relationships with minor league teams
Financials where it makes sense or may be possible
Actual schedules
Anything else that makes sense

I have created a league for 1902 that I need to tweak a little more before testing. I also started working on a 1901 league, but I was missing a couple bits of information that I hope to clear up. I will post updates to this thread if there is interest. You can also expect to see questions as I attempt to work through issues that I encounter.

ctorg · 06-21-2006, 08:12 AM

One thing I would think you would encounter is a problem with minor league affiliations, additions, subtractions, etc.

Early on, minor leagues were not affiliated. Some minor leagues, like the American Association, have been replaced. While there may be a way I haven't seen yet, I don't think the minor league system can be fully matched to real history.

Also, there are things like the Federal League, which was a minor league for one year, became a major league for two years, and then folded. As far as I can tell, the game won't handle that very well.

But good luck. If nothing else, you can get a lot closer than you could in previous versions of OOTP. It's something I tried to do several times, but I was never quite satisfied. It would be nice if universe structures were more malleable over time. It seems that you're kind of a bit stuck with how things are when you set them up in the beginning.

No Pepper · 06-21-2006, 08:21 AM

If I ever get around to it, and if you'd like to toss the idea around a bit yourself, would be to create Cuban and Negro Leagues at the beginning. They'd be separate, but over time (Cuban) and at 1947 (Negro Leagues), you can open the majors to these pools of players.

But I do remember someone saying a while back that unaffiliated teams cannot be affiliated later in the sim, is that correct? That would speak to what ctorg is saying.

redmarkYankees · 06-21-2006, 08:43 AM

Unaffiliated teams can be affiliated later, but the league needs to be setup as a "minor" league with a parent at the beginning.

Gil Thorp · 06-21-2006, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redmarkYankees

Unaffiliated teams can be affiliated later, but the league needs to be setup as a "minor" league with a parent at the beginning.

I'll ask, because I'm too lazy to test it, but if I set a league up this way with movement between the two leagues blocked, I could still manually move players between the leagues in commissioner mode, right?

redmarkYankees · 06-21-2006, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gil Thorp

I'll ask, because I'm too lazy to test it, but if I set a league up this way with movement between the two leagues blocked, I could still manually move players between the leagues in commissioner mode, right?

I haven't tested it, but yes I'd be very surprised if not - in the editor screen for the player, you can just move him to another team.

06-20-2006, 02:39 PM	#1 (permalink)
fearofmimes Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 31 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 posts	Fictional League consistent with Major League History On and off since OOTP4 I've been messing around trying to create a fictional league that mimics the results of major league baseball over the course of the years (since some reasonable point in the deadball era). With previous versions I ran into roadblocks that were pretty fundamental and I ended up giving up. Now I'm trying again with OOTPB 2006. I have started going through configuration options with the goal of creating different games to allow testing of different scenarios. The goal of the configuration and testing would be to allow the league to develop over time (with minor changes to options over time to mirror changes in baseball) with results that are roughly consistent with those of major league baseball. Basically, I want everything with the league to be as close to the conditions of actual major leage baseball except for the actual players. My particular interest in this effort is that it provides a foundation for exploring the game in a little more detail than I have been able to in the past. Also, I expect that it could help me build confidence in the game engine and AI so that I can pursue other ideas down the road. I'm also open to the possibility that my hopes for such confidence could be crushed as they were with past versions. The ultimate result of this could be one or more quickstarts, which could be of interest to others. Also, I'm expecting that there are a few issues with the game engine and AI model that will keep me from achieving all that I desire, but hopefully with the new version the issues won't be as fundamental as they were with past versions (like the problems with double headers until OOTP6.5). The elements that I expect to model are the following: Teams and their cities (tracking changes over time) Stadiums with reasonable park factors (changing over time as well) Roster rules and relationships with minor league teams Financials where it makes sense or may be possible Actual schedules Anything else that makes sense I have created a league for 1902 that I need to tweak a little more before testing. I also started working on a 1901 league, but I was missing a couple bits of information that I hope to clear up. I will post updates to this thread if there is interest. You can also expect to see questions as I attempt to work through issues that I encounter.

06-21-2006, 08:12 AM	#2 (permalink)
ctorg Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 9,701 Thanks: 38 Thanked 91x in 51 posts	One thing I would think you would encounter is a problem with minor league affiliations, additions, subtractions, etc. Early on, minor leagues were not affiliated. Some minor leagues, like the American Association, have been replaced. While there may be a way I haven't seen yet, I don't think the minor league system can be fully matched to real history. Also, there are things like the Federal League, which was a minor league for one year, became a major league for two years, and then folded. As far as I can tell, the game won't handle that very well. But good luck. If nothing else, you can get a lot closer than you could in previous versions of OOTP. It's something I tried to do several times, but I was never quite satisfied. It would be nice if universe structures were more malleable over time. It seems that you're kind of a bit stuck with how things are when you set them up in the beginning. __________________ THE VERY US ARTISTS - A project for musicians and visual artists My music Currently reading: Thirteen by Richard Morgan "When the trees blow back and forth, that's what makes the wind." - Steven Wright Fjord emena pancreas thorax fornicate marmalade morpheme proteolysis smaxa cabana offal srue vitriol grope hallelujah lentils

06-21-2006, 08:43 AM	#4 (permalink)
redmarkYankees All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,265 Thanks: 2 Thanked 33x in 22 posts	Unaffiliated teams can be affiliated later, but the league needs to be setup as a "minor" league with a parent at the beginning. __________________ In times of universal deceit, telling the truth will be a revolutionary act. George Orwell

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06-21-2006, 08:21 AM	#3 (permalink)
No Pepper All Star Starter Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,036 Thanks: 46 Thanked 171x in 75 posts	If I ever get around to it, and if you'd like to toss the idea around a bit yourself, would be to create Cuban and Negro Leagues at the beginning. They'd be separate, but over time (Cuban) and at 1947 (Negro Leagues), you can open the majors to these pools of players. But I do remember someone saying a while back that unaffiliated teams cannot be affiliated later in the sim, is that correct? That would speak to what ctorg is saying.