Holds Not Noted in Box Score

[chesshead2001]

I ahve the patched game, and I noticed that holds are not noted in the boxscore, and seem to be assigned to relievers too infrequently in the pitching stats of a given player...thanks!

[thisisme]

Originally Posted by thisisme

2. In playing out non-DH games, for some reason the middle relievers for the human controlled team are not getting credited with a "hold" when they should be. I've noticed this has been missing on 4 or 5 occasions when the relievers should be getting credit for one. This doesn't seem to be the case when playing out games with a DH - there the hold stat seems to be working fine.

I can definitely support this is happening - only to human-controlled teams.

[Zeyes]

Could you post a screen shot of a box score that is missing Holds?

[thisisme]

I will - unfortunately I can't figure out how to copy the whole box score and put it in a post. How do you do that?

[battists]

Originally Posted by chesshead2001

I ahve the patched game, and I noticed that holds are not noted in the boxscore, and seem to be assigned to relievers too infrequently in the pitching stats of a given player...thanks!

Hi chesshead,

I'm sorry it's taken us so long to get back to you on this. Obviously, since then a new patch has been released.

Can you give me some more information about this issue, such as specific box scores where you think a pitcher should have gotten a hold, and did not?

Thanks,

Steve

[Zeyes]

As a graphic: Open the box score, hit the Print Screen key, open MS Paint (or another graphics program), and paste the image. Then save to a jpg file (must be under 100 KB for posting here) and attach it to your post.

Or alternatively, in case the box score is too big for a screenshot (since we really need to see both the line score and the pitchers' results): Open the box score, click on "Open in external browser", then when the file is open, save the HTML page to disk somewhere. I don't think you can attach HTML files to your posts here, so you'll probably have to zip up all the box score files you want to post.

[Zeyes]

Oddly enough, the "Holds" issue has just been raised again today...probably easier to pursue it over there.

[Zeyes]

FWIW, after poring over 25 box scores from the first save game I could get my fingers on, I think I've found one box score with a missing hold, too.

I even have a hunch about where it might be going wrong, but more examples would indeed be nice.

Well, nobody's reading at this hour anyway, so I'll just dola by way of an edit: I think there's an additional problem with holds, in that they're being credited to pitchers who didn't get an out, which apparently shouldn't be happening if I'm reading the "rules" (such as they are for holds) correctly...

[battists]

OK, I've merged some related posts into this one thread about holds not in the box score.

Please continue providing additional information!

Steve

[Zeyes]

Well, here we go, based on about 100 box scores...as far as I can tell, I've found 4 cases of missing holds. Three of them share enough similarities that I'm fairly sure there's a systematic problem there; the fourth one puzzles me a bit. Anyway...



MacKinney became the pitcher of record for Seattle when they went up 5-3 in the top of the 8th, but Pennifold did not receive a Hold for pitching the 8th inning.

Onto number 2:


Wise became the pitcher of record for Brooklyn when they went up 6-4 in the top of the 6th, but neither Loveland nor Marcal received a Hold. You're probably starting to see the pattern already...

And case 3:



Dallas was up 8-5, one on, with no outs in the 8th inning, when Harris came in...save situation (the tying run was on deck), but no Hold credited. As with the other two cases, the team in question eventually suffered a blown save and the loss (not necessarily both by the same pitcher, though).

At any rate, AFAIK a hold should always be credited if:

a) the preceding pitcher is in line for the win at the time the reliever comes into the game, and
b) it's a Save situation, and
c) he gets at least one out, and
d) does not surrender the lead at any time (if he does surrender it, even if his team regains the lead while he's still pitching, it's not a Hold anymore, but a BS)

For a real-life example of this, see CHC @ STL, June 2nd - STL's Johnson and Looper received Holds for pitching parts of the 8th inning with a 3-2 lead, even though the game ultimately ended with BS->Loss.

If I had to wager a guess, I'd say that OOTP fails to consider which pitchers were originally in line for the win on the losing team, and thus doesn't credit any Holds to the pitchers that followed.

Okay, and now for the mysterious 4th box score:


I have no idea what happened here. Yamamoto got the win after leaving the game with a 3-0 score, but Fawkes didn't get a Hold. Strangely, Adams did, even though he pitched with the exact same score. However, Adams pitched 3 innings so he might have been credited based on the "3-inning-save" rule, and perhaps he would have gone Hold-less with less than 3 innings pitched as well. Anyway, it's wrong, both middle relievers should have received a Hold here, no matter how long they pitched.

As for the other issue I mentioned before (Holds being credited without any outs achieved), I'll make a new thread for that. (Edit: And here it is.)

[thisisme]

I've attached a zip file of another box score with a hold problem. It's a straightforward game, one team led the whole way. The middle reliever should have gotten a hold here.

Thanks for looking into this.

[battists]

OK, I've logged this (finally) as TT # 2288.

Does anyone have the MLB rules for when a hold is credited?

Thanks very much!

Steve

[sovereignstar]

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/of...egulations.jsp

[battists]

This has been claimed fixed in the next patch, but has not been verified yet.

Thanks,

Steve