[tcblcommish]

This is something that is bugging me to no extent.

I have a catcher who has a 100 for arm, 97 for range and 98 for catching ability or whatever that other rating is with a 78 for errors. Unfortunatley, he cannot throw out ANYONE. He allowed 76 stolen bases and caught 8 people.

I don't want to play pitch by pitch so I cannot hol anyone. Is this something that is being looked at?

Please say yes

[tysok]

Originally Posted by tcblcommish

This is something that is bugging me to no extent.

I have a catcher who has a 100 for arm, 97 for range and 98 for catching ability or whatever that other rating is with a 78 for errors. Unfortunatley, he cannot throw out ANYONE. He allowed 76 stolen bases and caught 8 people.

I don't want to play pitch by pitch so I cannot hol anyone. Is this something that is being looked at?

Please say yes

This came up a little while back as well... holding the runner should be the default, not the exception. Most of the time runners are held, even the Molina brothers... even Bonds is held at his advanced age.

Playing behind the runner is the exception, not the norm.

[fantom1979]

also, dont forget that your pitchers ability to hold runners is a factor in how many steals you allow. They would have to be pretty awful to destroy your catchers stats like that, but I just wanted you to keep that in mind.

[battists]

tcbl, could you do me a favor?

First, let me know the type of league - imported, standard, historical.

Second, can you take a copy of your league, and then sim out 10 years or something, and then show us the catching stats for this stud-catcher? That could provide some solid evidence. Hold or no hold, a catcher that good should put up good numbers over his career.

Thanks,

Steve

[tcblcommish]

Originally Posted by battists

tcbl, could you do me a favor?


Second, can you take a copy of your league, and then sim out 10 years or something, and then show us the catching stats for this stud-catcher? That could provide some solid evidence. Hold or no hold, a catcher that good should put up good numbers over his career.

Thanks,

Steve

That's a fine idea but wouldn't those stats be incorrect? I mean, if the computer sims all the games and runs all the plays and whatnot, then the hold would be on for the pitchers but if I am playing out all my games, there is NO hold.

[battists]

Originally Posted by tcblcommish

That's a fine idea but wouldn't those stats be incorrect? I mean, if the computer sims all the games and runs all the plays and whatnot, then the hold would be on for the pitchers but if I am playing out all my games, there is NO hold.

Well, I guess what I'm interested in is, over the course of his career, with those studly ratings, will he end up throwing out a good %? In other words, is the catcher throw-out model totally broken?

I mean, with those ratings, over the course of 10 years, he should put up some good numbers, in-game or out, especially compared to more moderately skilled catchers.

If you make a second copy of the league, you could just run it overnight, or whatever.

It might not solve everything, but it would certainly be valuable info. Thoughts?

[tcblcommish]

I will do just that and see how it comes out.

Will post tomorrow after work

[tcblcommish]

Well, i turned off all injuries and trades and such and tried simming 10 seasons.

In all those seasons, his ability to throw out runners was as great as it should be. In the 10 seasons he averaged 57.9% in throwing out runners.

I resumed my single player season, where I play every game out in it's totals and so far in 14 games, he hasn't thrown out anyone. 17 straight steals and nothing.

It gets a little frustrating when I know that I can stop it if I want my games to take forever and go that stupid pitch by pitch. I know people like it and asked for it but I hate it.

I would like to ask Markus or Marc if this is going to be addressed in this version or do I have to wait until the next game to have this. I hope not becuase if this is something that I will have to wait for then I think I might just go and play Puresim.

I have been here since ootp2 and have loved every game that I have bought but this one is making me question buying more.

Maybe this is a rant and tomorrow I will be all better but right now that is how I feel.

[tysok]

Originally Posted by tcblcommish

Well, i turned off all injuries and trades and such and tried simming 10 seasons.

In all those seasons, his ability to throw out runners was as great as it should be. In the 10 seasons he averaged 57.9% in throwing out runners.

I resumed my single player season, where I play every game out in it's totals and so far in 14 games, he hasn't thrown out anyone. 17 straight steals and nothing.

It gets a little frustrating when I know that I can stop it if I want my games to take forever and go that stupid pitch by pitch. I know people like it and asked for it but I hate it.

I would like to ask Markus or Marc if this is going to be addressed in this version or do I have to wait until the next game to have this. I hope not becuase if this is something that I will have to wait for then I think I might just go and play Puresim.

I have been here since ootp2 and have loved every game that I have bought but this one is making me question buying more.

Maybe this is a rant and tomorrow I will be all better but right now that is how I feel.

It should not have to wait. It should be a simple fix, and hopefully will get done. It wasn't an issue in the past versions because you hit hold runner and it simmed the at bat that way... now you don't have that option because it's only set for the one pitch, not the whole at bat.
It should have never been an "option" to hold the runner, but with pitch by pitch it's a desperate hole in the game.

[battists]

OK, I logged this as TT # 2227.

If it's OK with you, I'm not going to turn this into a discussion of the pitch-by-pitch mode thing. I don't have any new information for you on that...

Thanks,

Steve

[Markus Heinsohn]

That's probably just bad luck, the engine does not change a bit when playing games manually. Also, the "hold runner" does not mean that the 1B man does not hold the runner when not used. It means the pitcher speeds up his delivery and concentrates a bit more on the runner, resulting in less pitching performance but slightly more chance to throw out the runner... I personally never use it.

[akw4572]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

That's probably just bad luck, the engine does not change a bit when playing games manually. Also, the "hold runner" does not mean that the 1B man does not hold the runner when not used. It means the pitcher speeds up his delivery and concentrates a bit more on the runner, resulting in less pitching performance but slightly more chance to throw out the runner... I personally never use it.

Now there is some very useful info. Thanks! Is there like a % that gets taken off of stolen base success, or just the fact that runners are less likely to go when using the hold runners option (kinda what we talked about on email awhile back)?

[tcblcommish]

So Markus, what you are saying is that I AM holding all the time?

If that's the case then there is something very wrong. If I choose not to hold then I do not want my first baseman over at the bag creating a hole between 2nd and 1st. However, if I do have my first baseman holding then the chance of a stolen base would be less logically.

I know the game engine doesn't change but when you sim, does your computer managers not hold on plays when a fast guy is on base?

[Giants44]

Originally Posted by tysok

This came up a little while back as well... holding the runner should be the default, not the exception. Most of the time runners are held, even the Molina brothers... even Bonds is held at his advanced age.

Playing behind the runner is the exception, not the norm.

I have been saying this since v3!

[tysok]

Originally Posted by Giants44

I have been saying this since v3!

I've just been thinking it since version 5, and saying it since version 2006... so you have senority.

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

That's probably just bad luck, the engine does not change a bit when playing games manually. Also, the "hold runner" does not mean that the 1B man does not hold the runner when not used. It means the pitcher speeds up his delivery and concentrates a bit more on the runner, resulting in less pitching performance but slightly more chance to throw out the runner... I personally never use it.

This is good to know, but there are some buts to this...

What you're describing is entirely decided on by the pitcher, not anything signaled from the dugout. The option of whether to try and advance an extra base is gone because it wasn't something controlled by the manager... neither is a pitcher hurrying his delivery to try and hold a runner.
I'm not arguing for the advancing option to be put back in... it's more realistic without because it ISN'T something you control as the manager...
The thing you're describing is the pitchers decision, usually done when a fast runner is on base. The manager doesn't tell him to, he just does it in an attempt to keep him there, or give a better chance to throw him out if he does go.
This should be included with the pitchers ability to hold runners, this ability isn't just how good a pickoff move he has but also includes how well he deceives the runner in his delivery, and how quickly he gets the ball to the plate.

"Resulting in slightly less pitcher performance" is a good thing that generally goes along with any runner on base... I don't know how you're currently handling this... or how big the "slightly less performance" is, or if there's a slight bonus to hitters with runners on base instead... but most hitters have better stats with runners on then not, so it should surely be one or the other.

Either way though, this option shouldn't exist at all if the first baseman is always "holding the runner" with a man on first. The option should change to "play behind the runner" for those occasions when you'd rather let him run than let a hit go through the gap in the right side.

[Elendil]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

That's probably just bad luck, the engine does not change a bit when playing games manually. Also, the "hold runner" does not mean that the 1B man does not hold the runner when not used. It means the pitcher speeds up his delivery and concentrates a bit more on the runner, resulting in less pitching performance but slightly more chance to throw out the runner... I personally never use it.

Wow. This should be in the game manual.