My minor league manager AI has 177 men on my Rookie League Team

[bababui]

It keeps signing more and more crappy players

[TC Dale]

Hate to sound like a broken record, but we need a lot more information on this one...

Where are you datewise in the game, and what settings are you using, including third party mods, etc.. what database are you using to play it, etc.. the more we have the quicker we can help fix the problem!

[bababui]

Season 1

AI controls minors

[DougWyatt]

I assume you've attempted to fix this with league setup/rules ?

[bababui]

Originally Posted by DougWyatt

I assume you've attempted to fix this with league setup/rules ?

Its just the rookie league and the AI manages it so I didnt think to do that. But its still a bug.

[DougWyatt]

Originally Posted by bababui

Its just the rookie league and the AI manages it so I didnt think to do that. But its still a bug.

I wouldn't say so. If the league rules say they can have unlimited players; then they can have unlimited players. If you want them to only have 35, then set it at 35.

I know, 200 players is crazy - but that's the beauty of OOTP. Maybe there is a dude out there that wants to sign 200 players ... he can. And you can restrict the number of players in your league. You both win, and to me, that's what makes OOTP great - everyone can play "their way".

It can't be a bug, when the game is functioning within your settings (settings which you can control).

See ?

[Le Grande Orange]

In case anyone reading is curious about the current active limits in the real minor leagues:

24 - AAA
24 - AA
25 - A
30 - Short Season A
35 - Rookie

[bababui]

Originally Posted by DougWyatt

I wouldn't say so. If the league rules say they can have unlimited players; then they can have unlimited players. If you want them to only have 35, then set it at 35.

I know, 200 players is crazy - but that's the beauty of OOTP. Maybe there is a dude out there that wants to sign 200 players ... he can. And you can restrict the number of players in your league. You both win, and to me, that's what makes OOTP great - everyone can play "their way".

It can't be a bug, when the game is functioning within your settings (settings which you can control).

See ?

I see your point but why is the AI compelled to sign bottom-of-the-barrel players that have no value? This is the part I see as a bug..the AI's judgement.

[bababui]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

In case anyone reading is curious about the current active limits in the real minor leagues:

24 - AAA
24 - AA
25 - A
30 - Short Season A
35 - Rookie

Thanks LGO..I plugged these in

[pappyzan]

i don't recall the thread, but hasn't it been documented that if you set a roster size limit on your lowest level league, that draft-and-release problems seem to occur each year?

[Vinny P.]

maybe u saw in-game set-up, right where your setting roster limits, it says at the bottom some thing like "roster limit of less than 35 in lowest minor league not recommended"

[pappyzan]

nah, the draft-and-release issue has been logged and assigned a TT# apparently:

Serious draft bug

Draft & Release instead of Sign & Release?

[sixto]

Originally Posted by DougWyatt

I know, 200 players is crazy - but that's the beauty of OOTP. Maybe there is a dude out there that wants to sign 200 players ... he can. And you can restrict the number of players in your league. You both win, and to me, that's what makes OOTP great - everyone can play "their way".

It can't be a bug, when the game is functioning within your settings (settings which you can control).

See ?

I strongly disagree with this assertion. This issue is in fact a bug. And a huge one. The AI needs to be taught to value players based on how they fit in the organization, in addition to how they fit in the universe as a whole. Please consider the following:

1. In modern MLB there is a virtual limit to the number of players an organization can have under contract. That limit is the number of teams the organization has, times the limit of players per team.

2. Thus, if the average MLB organization has 6 teams, with a roster limit of 25 per team (for argument's sake), and there are 30 teams, that means that, not accounting for judgment or the disabled list, the first player available as a free agent would be something like the 4501st best player in that universe.

3. If teams have 100 players per Rookie League team, that is 75x30, or 2250 additional players in ML organizations. Thus, the best free agent available is the 6751st player in that universe.

3. It's more complicated than that. In real life there are gaps between levels and players fall into the cracks. Major League teams generally employ the best 25 players available in each organization, but their AAA teams do not necessarily have the 24 next best players, because it doesn't work like that.

4. Minor league teams are developmental, and organizations must plug in the best player they have available at each level. and get those players the playing time they need to develop. If they have a starting 1B at each level, and a backup 1B at each level, they have all the 1B they need. If they can't find a place for any leftover 1Bs to play, they tend to let them go, even though they are technically better players than, say, some second-string SS in A ball.

5. The result of this is that a selection of free agents available at any given time will be better than some of the players who have places in ML organizations. This is because a team's mandate isn't to stash on its rosters all the best players in the world - only the best players in the world that they can use.

6. This doesn't even take into account the fact that MLB is supposedly not the only league structure OOTP supports. It's bad enough if an MLB team has access only to the 6751st best player in the world via free agency - what do independent leagues have access to?

7. In the above example, there are some 2250 players who would be some of the best players in each independent league, who are unavailable - even though they are getting no playing time rotting on some rookie league roster.

8. The beauty of OOTP is that you can set the roster limit for the lowest minor league at 177 players, so if you want teams to store that many players, they can. The beauty of OOTP is decidedly not that you can't do it any other way without the AI releasing its most recent draftees because it can't find a place for them to play.

9. I should add that it should be an economic issue - 177 players on a team would mean a team is paying some 150 players not to play. Even at $5000 a year per player this is $750,000 a year down the drain. I know baseball teams have a lot of money, but that $750,000 could be used in a lot better ways.

Like dougaiton before me, I am totally amazed that people don't understand why this is a bug. It is a huge, huge deal that makes free agents completely worthless during the season, and makes independent leagues without amateur drafts unplayable.

[Vinny P.]

1 thing ive always thought about free agents is that the game or AI should automatically delete all free agents who dont even see a single plate appearance in a season, if at all possible to do so in the next installment.

those that have previous stats, should be retired, rather than deleted even if they are only 23.

my favorite league ive been playing is beginning to get bogged down with too many free agents and i have gone back to to see if i can find any of those stupid signings ive read about in this thread, and guess what: some teams' AIs ARE doing just that.

to fix this problem, i have since took my first year player draft to just 1 round, and will have it at 1 round until the league begins to get depleted of free agents. hopefully in the next 5 years or so, then will raise it to 5 rounds for a few years, and maybe bring it up to 8 or 9 rounds at the most.

i figure that 5 rounds is ideal if you have just the right amount of free agents, since most teams will probly lose 2 - 3 players a piece due to retirement, and the rest of the retirees are mostly free agents anyway. that should be the best fix for this problem

[Ksyrup]

The 35-man limit for the lowest level has created, for me, a sign-and-release issue. I'm playing an historical sim, so I don't use draft and I don't have enough FAs for the AI to sign 100 for each team - and I'm only using 1 level of minors - but I've found the choice to be between setting the limit to 35, and having huge sign-and-release issues, or setting it to unlimited, and having the AI sign pretty much every available FA there is. My problem isn' that big because in an historical sim, it takes several years for the number of players imported to reach a point where the AI is either going to over-run the minors with too many players, or I'll finally have a FA pool. But there is a big issue here.

[kroney37]

Somewhat off topic, but I think sixto has a good point with respect to player valuation. I'm sure that if the AI didn't keep signing crappy players, independent leagues might be easier to run properly. Players like Ozzie Canseco or very late-career Rickey Henderson might not get signed because and would allow indy leagues to grab some players.

Incidentally, since the game doesn't allow for minor league rehab assignments, I usually set a maximum age limit for rookie, short season A and A ball leagues.

[Nutlaw]

I have assigned this TT 3558, though I believe that the roster limits were the intended solution to this problem.

[jps42]

i have the same issue, 100s of players in my R team....basically the last 3 years high draft picks, too, with high potential, are rotting without an AB or IP in the rookie team.

If I put in a max setting (35), my prospects get realeased.

This is hugely frustrating

[Markus Heinsohn]

If somebody emails me a league file with this problem I will take a look at it

[CBL-Commish]

This is also a huge problem with independent leagues and reserve rosters. Any league without a minor league affiliate has a reserve roster. This means that the smallest, poorest, least viable indy league franchises will hoarde players. I've mentioned this in this thread, but my Greenland Winter League has 18-man roster limits, and finances that wouldn't be too ridiculous if they just used pennies, but every single team has 30+ players on their reserve roster. It's absurd that the Qannaq Tusk, with annual revenues of maybe $5000, can have upwards of 50 players on contract, including 30 or more who'll never see a single at bat or inning pitched. The league's batting champ was demoted in mid season and replaced with one of those hundreds of reserves because of a minor talent change. When you're playing at a low enough level and you're able to tie up hundreds of players you'll have a lot of nonsensical roster churn.

I wholeheartedly agree with sixto - this is a bug, and a rather big one. Neither small independent leagues nor the lowest level of affiliated minors function correctly, and this ripples through your universe.

The AI needs to be able to make a decision on which lower-level players to keep and which to cut, and that needs to vary depending on type of league. Affiliated minors need to heavily weigh potential, while indy leagues need to put more emphasis on current ratings and stats.

Also, some value has to be placed on minor league contracts. Teams need to realize that keeping dozens (or hundreds) of unused players on contract is costing them something - and right now it's not. Assigning a minimal dollar value to these players might help the AI to not bust their budget with ridiculous numbers of players.