I still say the finances are buggy

[beorn]

I still think the finances in the game are buggy. Here is an example.

My main financial page is below:

The team's finances are a bit shaky -- I will probably lose about $2 million this year, but I have the cash reserves to more than cover the loss. Both the game and I figure I will end the year with about $3.7 million in cash reserves. As the game engine reports, I could safely sign a player for the rest of the season, as long as this new obligation does not exceed $3.7 million.


Now look at the report for my salary obligations:

My salary obligations are lower next season, by $3.7 million. Therefore, it appears that rather than losing $2 million during the next season, I will actually profit $1.7 million. If I can sign a $3.7 million player for this season, apparently I can spend a little more than that for next season.

Now look at this:

According to the game, I cannot resign a guy to a super cheap contract for next year. (And no, this is not a league where the owner has control over the money. All cash should be available to the GM.)

Maybe someone can show me this is not a bug, and that I am just missing something. But it continues to appear to me that the finances in the game are a mess, but because the topic is complicated, no one is really putting pressure on to get it fixed.

[Nutlaw]

Did you have any other free agent offers outstanding?

[Nutlaw]

Also, does that appear to be the same issue as this bug, already claimed fixed for the next patch?

Possible finance bug: Fictional AI owner refusing legit contract offer

[beorn]

Originally Posted by Nutlaw

Did you have any other free agent offers outstanding?

No, but good point, I should have stated that.

Originally Posted by Nutlaw

Also, does that appear to be the same issue as this bug, already claimed fixed for the next patch?
Possible finance bug: Fictional AI owner refusing legit contract offer

I'm not sure. It certainly may be. I will hope!

[tysok]

How good are your arb eligible guys? Is there a remote, outside, no way in hell chance these guys could end up (together) making 4-5 million?

I don't play with all cash available, so not sure how it all works. I do know the computer takes something into account for what the arb guys will make, and what it takes into account is a number far far bigger than what they will actually get.
I had a guy I estimated to make about 5 million in arbitration, the financials were giving me a hard time so I signed this guy up to a 5 million contract, and suddenly I had 3 or 4 million available that I didn't before... appearing that the game was using 8-9 million as this guys expected arbitration award. What it SEEMS to use SEEMS to coincide somewhat with what the arb eligible guy is asking for when you offer him an extension... might this be your problem? Since you're so close to your max, it could be.

[Nutlaw]

I was kinda thinking the same thing, Tysok, but I hadn't thought that the arbitration players were factored in.

If this weren't an on-line league, I'd say make a copy, cut the arbitration eligible guys, and see how the finances play out then. Hrm. Well, could you export for the next sim, then try it?

[beorn]

Originally Posted by tysok

How good are your arb eligible guys? Is there a remote, outside, no way in hell chance these guys could end up (together) making 4-5 million?

I don't play with all cash available, so not sure how it all works. I do know the computer takes something into account for what the arb guys will make, and what it takes into account is a number far far bigger than what they will actually get.
I had a guy I estimated to make about 5 million in arbitration, the financials were giving me a hard time so I signed this guy up to a 5 million contract, and suddenly I had 3 or 4 million available that I didn't before... appearing that the game was using 8-9 million as this guys expected arbitration award. What it SEEMS to use SEEMS to coincide somewhat with what the arb eligible guy is asking for when you offer him an extension... might this be your problem? Since you're so close to your max, it could be.

Interesting. I cut the three guys, and I now have $613 k left for contract extensions.

Therefore:
1) The game IS doing some internal estimates of probable arbitration awards and taking them out of available money. (I don't mind this, but think that this should be accounted for somewhere.)
2) There remains the original problem, because the team should have far more than $613 k remaining for signings players for next year.

[tysok]

It will assume the same budget you have this year as what you'll have next year... it probably doesn't take into account that all cash is available and you project out to have more cash next year. So you'll still have a budget of 39.2 million...

Still you should have more, like 2.4 million for extensions. I've sent in several league files of where the calculations aren't right lately. Sort of this same problem. I haven't heard anything about them. You'll probably see your available money for extensions go up as the year goes on, till it gets up close to being right (probably around late July to mid August).

I played this league for 40 seasons before I saw this type of problem, but in all that time I was never near my budget (I had 149 million budget, and never spent more than 130 million a season)... once I got up to needing every dollar of that budget room it wasn't doing the math right.

[Nutlaw]

Tysok, did you ever come to a resolution or log this one?

[matt2053]

Originally Posted by beorn

The game IS doing some internal estimates of probable arbitration awards and taking them out of available money.

VERY interesting!

[Nutlaw]

Beorn, any thoughts on finances using the final patch?

[beorn]

I just applied the patch a couple hours ago and have not had time to experiment yet -- but I am hopeful.

[Safebet222]

I have the new patch installed and I am having the same problems described by Beorn. I have no Free Agent offers and 2mil budget room. I cant even sign a one year contract for the minimum.

[darkcloud4579]

It's all of these things with the financial system that made me devise my own. There are too many inconsistencies that it's really hard to keep up with and so, I just stopped trying to.

[Nutlaw]

Beorn? Anything I ought to be logging on this one?

[beorn]

My time has been limited lately, but my impression is that the situation is unchanged.

[tysok]

I haven't seen or heard any reason to think that it's been fixed. I never heard back on the league files I sent off to Markus. It's on my list of things to check in detail during beta for the next version.

[Another Mike D]

We are having a major problem with finances in our online league. We have a salary cap set to 100M for starters. Our SD manager tells me he can barely make offers. We are in the offseason, his budget is 81M, his payroll stands at about 85M. So he's projected to be 4M over budget. However, he has 20M in cash. On the finances page in game, it says he has 16M available for staff/player signings. But the game won't let him make any offers. Funny thing is, if I act as SD from commish mode, I can make any offer. We have it set to all money available (not owner controlled). So what gives?? This is a MAJOR bug if it is one.

Also, I noted a similar problem for extensions. It won't let you extend past your budget even if you have excess cash.

[darkcloud4579]

I'm trying to devise a streamlined model that either allows the in-game system to work servicably or if not, a system outside of the game that online leagues and individuals can use to at least have a financial system that makes more sense.

I don't know how successful lobbying for it within the beta team will be, mostly because there are some people who feel the system as it is now isn't all that bad.

[Another Mike D]

Originally Posted by darkcloud4579

I'm trying to devise a streamlined model that either allows the in-game system to work servicably or if not, a system outside of the game that online leagues and individuals can use to at least have a financial system that makes more sense.

I don't know how successful lobbying for it within the beta team will be, mostly because there are some people who feel the system as it is now isn't all that bad.

I don't understand how it's not bad. It's a bug. If I have a 70M budget and 60M payroll with 20M in cash, I should be able to sign up to 30M worth of players. The game tells me from the finance screen I can do such. But when the GMs go to make the offer, it won't let them. It's not taking cash into effect when actually making the offer. I have the owner turned off so all money should be available. I agree, it's tough with the extensions because it's "speculating" how much arby will be, but the hearings are over, budgets are set, and it's still screwing up.

Edit: What I did is spent 20 minutes adding the cash to the budget, and making the cash 0 just for FA. After FA, I will add cash back and reset budget. It's stupid to have to do this and should be at least looked into.