BZ 1694: Scoring errors

[Redleg]

The game said this was an earned run. Should have been unearned. Gibbs went to third on the passed ball, which is figured the same as an error by the official scorer when determining earned runs. So even if Gibbs had tagged up and gone to third on Newsome's fly ball, Gibbs still would have been left at third base when Crabtree flew out to end the inning.

Examples of other types of scoring problems will follow in this thread.

[Redleg]

A few different issues in this inning. C. Perez starts the inning as the Oklahoma City pitcher. The first run he allows is an earned run, but the game says it's unearned. Here's the breakdown: Tobias walks and reaches second on a sacrifice by Estrada. Robinson reaches second on a two-base throwing error by the catcher, and Tobias scores. We can probably assume that Tobias would have advanced to third on this little grounder in front of the plate, because the catcher's wild throw went to first base. No matter if Tobias goes to third or stays at second, though, because his run becomes earned when the next batter, Coffey, doubles. The other three runs C. Perez allows in this inning are correctly assessed as unearned. But his runs-earned runs numbers for this appearance should have been 4-1 instead of 4-0.

Another problem: Following Coffey's double, Avila's fly ball is caught by the right fielder. Now look at the attached image containing the play-by-play sequence. We see that after Allen catches the fly ball in right field Coffey tages up and heads for third. Allen's throw is not good, but this cannot be assessed an error. There was no advancement beyond the tagging runner moving from second to third. And a good throw cannot be assumed in this situation. It is the same as an outfielder throwing home to try to retire a runner tagging from third base and throwing the ball wide or high or wherever. As long as no other runners make extra advancements due to the inaccurate throw, no error can be charged. The only way Allen's poor throw could saddle him with an error is if Coffey had tagged up and faked an advance to third, stopping after he had induced Allen to make a throw. If Allen's throw was bad enough, Coffey could have advanced on the error. But this is not the scenario described in the play-by-play. If it is what is supposed to have happened, then the play-by-play needs to communicate this. So, Allen is charged with an error when he should not have been.

Now it gets a little trickier. After Castellanos singles home another unearned run, chasing C. Perez from the mound, Hodjaev replaces him at pitcher. When it comes to earned-run calculations, Hodjaev cannot be the "beneficiary" of any errors in the inning made by his teammates before he entered the game. And here we are about to see an example of the little-known rulebook clause that says runs can be charged as unearned to a team, but as earned to an individual pitcher on that team. Even when they are the very same runs.

So, Hodjaev's first batter, Rodriguez, triples in the last of the unearned runs charged to C. Perez. Rodriguez then scores on a wild pitch. This run is unearned against the team, but earned against Hodjaev. Later in the inning when Godsey triples home S. Perez, we have another unearned run against the team and earned run against Hodjaev. So, Hodjaev's runs-earned runs line should be 2-2 instead of 2-0. As far as the team pitching statistics in the inning go, five of the six runs are unearned. But when you add up the individual pitching statistics in the inning, only three of the six runs are unearned.

[Tony M]

I think you are right in all your assessments of the errors there with the earning/unearning.

[Tony M]

Bz 1694

[Redleg]

I'm not trying to repeatedly post the same issue, but because there are several ways that the game is incorrectly determining the statistics, I want to try to post varied examples in which different incorrect determinations seem to be happening.

Our friend from post #2, Mr. Hodjaev, is back again in this example. It really has been a rough couple of days for this 6-foot-7 lefty from Belarus. But at least the OOTP official scorer has been charitable to him. Here's another example:

Hodjaev starts the inning by walking Santos (he surely knows better, even growing up in a former Soviet republic in Eastern Europe). Eventually Hodjaev loads the bases using two walks and a single, striking out one batter in there somewhere. With one out and the sacks heavy, Castellanos hits a routine ground ball to short. You can reference the attached image for the play-by-play account.

So, the runner should have been retired at second for the second out of the inning, but wasn't. Castellanos reaches first base on the fielder's choice.

The first problem I see is that Castellanos should have been credited with an RBI on the play, but wasn't.

Rodriguez then steps in and hits a grand slam to drive home the final four of the inning's five runs. In OOTP's final tally, it says that only three of the inning's five runs are earned against Hodjaev. It should have been four. Only one runner in the inning had his stay on the basepaths prolonged due to an error (the runner that should have been retired on Castellanos' ground ball to shortstop). But, subtracting that event from the inning, there is no way that four runs wouldn't have scored on the homer by Rodriguez.

My guess as to what happened in OOTP's scoring brain? It correctly calculated that the runner at second that should have been retired on the grounder to short and later came home to score was an unearned run. But, I think its mistake came in its calculation regarding Castellanos, who hit the ground ball and reached first base on the fielder's choice. I believe OOTP must have assumed that Castellanos reached on the error instead of a fielder's choice, and therefore made his run unearned, too. That's why it thought there were two unearned runs instead of one.

As a footnote: In just his last two appearances, Hodjaev has yielded seven runs, all of which have been detailed in these posts. The game has said that three of those seven were earned. It should have been six of seven. So it is clear what a dramatic impact these incorrect calculations are having on the statistics the game is displaying.

[bwburke94]

You're right. You can't assume a DP on a wild throw to second base, but the game is doing it.

[Nutlaw]

This has been marked as something to be addressed at a later time.

[Redleg]

Originally Posted by Nutlaw

This has been marked as something to be addressed at a later time.

Understood, but I'm going to continue to post varying examples so that this thread can be a repository for scoring problems when the time comes to get them fixed.

...

This example is a little bit strange because it seems to involve the same kind of play as in the previous example, but with a different conclusion drawn about whether the run that scores is earned.

With one out and a runner on first, Robles grounds back to the pitcher, who throws errantly to second, allowing Kane to reach that base. So Kane should have been retired for the second out, with Robles reaching first base on a fielder's choice. So when Kane comes home to score later in the inning, the run cannot be earned, even though it is assessed by the game as an earned run.

[Redleg]

Atlanta's Jerry Royster singles to lead off the game against Houston's J.R. Richard, then moves to second on a ground out. He steals third base and scores when the throw from the catcher is wild. At this point, Royster's run is unearned, and remains unearned after Montanez grounds out to the pitcher, as Royster would not have scored from third on this play. Gary Matthews' triple, however, does make Royster's run earned, as Royster would have scored from third base on the hit. Three additional runs score in the inning, and all of those are earned, as well, as the throwing error had no bearing on whether those runs would have scored. However, the game said all four runs that scored were unearned against Richard.

What appears to have happened is that an out was assumed when Houston's catcher, Joe Ferguson, attempted to throw out Royster on his steal of third base. This is incorrect. No out can be assumed in this case. If Ferguson's throw to third had been good, and in time to retire Royster, but was muffed by the third baseman, then and only then can an out be assumed on a stolen base attempt. (In such a case an error would be assessed to the third baseman and a caught stealing charged to Royster.) Had this happened then all four runs would have been unearned.

[professor ape]

I am playing a game right now where the lead off man hit a home run but the pitcher was not charged an earned run. The stat line shows it as an unearned run for the pitcher. There are no errors or anything to make it questionable.