Gambo Ankit 3.75 Released - Page 2

Cowboys3356 · 03-12-2006, 12:25 PM

One "negative" thing I have noticed about this database (at least for 1993) is that there are WAY too many young stud pitcher who are importing with great actual ratings that did not actually appear in the major leagues for several more years and even then did not put up big numbers. If there is a way to tweak the pitchers whenever the next update is done then I would suggest doing so. The problem seems to be mostly in the guys age 16-21 that all seem to import with great numbers and the CPU wants to make them starters right away.

Gambo · 03-12-2006, 08:48 PM

I'll definately take a look at that...

Andruw Jones is a type of player that is hard to let a game recreate. How often do "excellent" players spend that much time in the minors. The hope was that my formulas would account as much as possible for this.

Anyway,

One of the original issues when I released this database was the problem that the batting and pitching formulas I used were not even and it was creating an uneven balance of dominant pitchers.

I checked the numbers and low and behold the numbers were not near even. I discussed this with ankit and came up with a solution. (basically we evened them out)

I ran alot of my tests from the 70s on and because the average age of a pitcher was older I may not have noticed this as much in the initial import. However, i didnt see it on rookie imports.

The root of this problem is probably is that a stud pitcher at 17 is probably already better than a 27 year old journeyman. The game wont worry about how good the 17 year old will be if given the chance to develop and would rather start him before that 27 year old.

Also, It's tough the create more than just a cheap clone of any player based on pitching stats at least compared to batters.

I'll do an overview of the numbers to see if there is an obviuos solution or whether i totally missed something. I'm glad the problem may be in the pitching department because that is easiest to totally rework.

Cowboys3356 · 03-14-2006, 10:18 PM

The biggest problem area does appear to be the young pitchers as you mentioned in your post. Another area of concern is with the age of the players importing from the database. I just imported the real rookies from 1994 as I continue my testing and a 14 year old Adrian Beltre. Needless to say that is NOT a good thing. There were also five 15 yr olds, ten 16 yr olds, and thiry-sx 17 year olds. This seems to be a major issue and while the number of 17 year olds isn't too "unreal", the number of 14 and 15 year olds seems WAY off. Perhaps more work needs to be done on debut dates. I will continue testing and post as info becomes available.

On a side note, I found that the results from the 1993 season were VERY good in terms of total league output. Some work needs to be done in terms of which players are putting up the numbers but overall I think it is pretty good. My major concern is long term replay and how well these 16-18 year olds will develop.

Malleus Dei · 03-14-2006, 11:10 PM

Doc, please keep us posted. The thought of that many players that young being imported is scary.

Cowboys3356 · 03-15-2006, 05:38 PM

The roster set is actually playing pretty well and the youngsters are the only downside. I guess I could manually alter their debut dates but it might be best if Gambo did that himself and then reissued the database. If the debut dates were brought under control just a bit and if the young pitchers stopped importing as "supermen" then I have to say this database is pretty darn good.

My roster set will have over 2,000 players so it should make an awesome base for anyone wanting to do a long term career league.

Cowboys3356 · 03-15-2006, 08:56 PM

Here are the stats that Barry "Balco" Bonds put up in one of my 1993 test run seasons:

159G, 496AB, 178H, 166R, 23Doubles, 11Triples, 61HR, 154RBI, 169BB, .359AVG, .521OBP, 1.339OPS, 63SB, 69K, 16IW,

I am not saying whether those numbers are accurate or inaccurate, I just thought they were pretty impressive!

On a side note the award winners were:

AL Cy Young: Roger Clemens
NL Cy Young: Kevin Rogers?!?!?!?
AL ROY: Troy Neel?!?!?
NL ROY: Mike Piazza
AL MVP: Jim Thome
NL MVP: Barry Bonds
World Series Winner: Texas Rangers

Gambo · 03-16-2006, 05:52 PM

Actually the Debut Dates are right... i'll give you an example...

If you look at Baseball-reference.com Adrian Beltre was signed July 7th, 1994 by the Los Angeles Dodgers, he was born April 7th, 1979. So as of April 1st (opening day) he was only 14.

If you notice there are alot of hispanic ball players who historically have tended to report false ages and birthdays.

I'll take a look at the pitching stuff asap though.

Also, keep in mind the draft is in July so add a year to alot of those ages.

Gambo · 03-16-2006, 06:11 PM

BTW,

Cowboys i'm glad your working on this project because it's giving me the input i've been looking for on this database since I started.

I'm curious as to whether player creation modifiers or the player evaluation modifiers will have any effect on how the pitchers are viewed.

Gambo · 03-16-2006, 07:23 PM

Yup, it does seem like the game is imported the pitchers nearly identical to their talent ratings. So their real good already and they have no room to grow.

I dont see it as much during the initial import but I definately do with the subsequent drafts.

I dont remember having this problem before. Does anybody who used my DB previously remember noticing this?

I'm curious as to whether this is a 6.5 issue or a database issue because the batters seem to be okay and nobody mentioned the pitching issue before.

Gambo · 03-18-2006, 01:34 AM

Well there does seem to be a problem with the imports at least with the pitchers, but I do have a couple of ideas on how to fix it.

I'll post information on an updated version shortly.

Cowboys3356 · 03-18-2006, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gambo

BTW,

Cowboys i'm glad your working on this project because it's giving me the input i've been looking for on this database since I started.

I'm curious as to whether player creation modifiers or the player evaluation modifiers will have any effect on how the pitchers are viewed.

My experience has been that the creation modifiers only come into play if the game creates fictional players.

Gambo · 03-21-2006, 04:52 PM

I've decided due to time constraints and with the new game coming out soon I'm gonna hold off on fixing up the database until then. I dont want to waste time fixing up this stuff if the next iteration is gonna make those changes moot.

If anybody was waiting patiently i'm sorry.

Gambo · 04-06-2006, 12:31 AM

We after they said that the new game isnt going to be released until late may I decided to work on the DB some after all..

I think I may have gotten rid of the uber pitchers importing (or at least helped them some)...

Anyhow when it's done (very soon) it will be a much cleaner version of the DB that 3.75.

I need to get it together before I can do some testing but I think scaling every pitcher to 250IP just makes it consider everybody too good...

I'll let you know

03-12-2006, 08:48 PM	#22 (permalink)
Gambo All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,659 Thanks: 26 Thanked 426x in 221 posts	I'll definately take a look at that... Andruw Jones is a type of player that is hard to let a game recreate. How often do "excellent" players spend that much time in the minors. The hope was that my formulas would account as much as possible for this. Anyway, One of the original issues when I released this database was the problem that the batting and pitching formulas I used were not even and it was creating an uneven balance of dominant pitchers. I checked the numbers and low and behold the numbers were not near even. I discussed this with ankit and came up with a solution. (basically we evened them out) I ran alot of my tests from the 70s on and because the average age of a pitcher was older I may not have noticed this as much in the initial import. However, i didnt see it on rookie imports. The root of this problem is probably is that a stud pitcher at 17 is probably already better than a 27 year old journeyman. The game wont worry about how good the 17 year old will be if given the chance to develop and would rather start him before that 27 year old. Also, It's tough the create more than just a cheap clone of any player based on pitching stats at least compared to batters. I'll do an overview of the numbers to see if there is an obviuos solution or whether i totally missed something. I'm glad the problem may be in the pitching department because that is easiest to totally rework. Last edited by Gambo; 03-12-2006 at 08:49 PM.

03-16-2006, 05:52 PM	#27 (permalink)
Gambo All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,659 Thanks: 26 Thanked 426x in 221 posts	Actually the Debut Dates are right... i'll give you an example... If you look at Baseball-reference.com Adrian Beltre was signed July 7th, 1994 by the Los Angeles Dodgers, he was born April 7th, 1979. So as of April 1st (opening day) he was only 14. If you notice there are alot of hispanic ball players who historically have tended to report false ages and birthdays. I'll take a look at the pitching stuff asap though. Also, keep in mind the draft is in July so add a year to alot of those ages. Last edited by Gambo; 03-16-2006 at 05:54 PM.

04-06-2006, 12:31 AM	#33 (permalink)
Gambo All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,659 Thanks: 26 Thanked 426x in 221 posts	We after they said that the new game isnt going to be released until late may I decided to work on the DB some after all.. I think I may have gotten rid of the uber pitchers importing (or at least helped them some)... Anyhow when it's done (very soon) it will be a much cleaner version of the DB that 3.75. I need to get it together before I can do some testing but I think scaling every pitcher to 250IP just makes it consider everybody too good... I'll let you know Last edited by Gambo; 04-06-2006 at 12:35 AM.

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03-12-2006, 12:25 PM	#21 (permalink)
Cowboys3356 All Star Starter Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,382 Thanks: 8 Thanked 5x in 5 posts	One "negative" thing I have noticed about this database (at least for 1993) is that there are WAY too many young stud pitcher who are importing with great actual ratings that did not actually appear in the major leagues for several more years and even then did not put up big numbers. If there is a way to tweak the pitchers whenever the next update is done then I would suggest doing so. The problem seems to be mostly in the guys age 16-21 that all seem to import with great numbers and the CPU wants to make them starters right away.

03-14-2006, 10:18 PM	#23 (permalink)
Cowboys3356 All Star Starter Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,382 Thanks: 8 Thanked 5x in 5 posts	The biggest problem area does appear to be the young pitchers as you mentioned in your post. Another area of concern is with the age of the players importing from the database. I just imported the real rookies from 1994 as I continue my testing and a 14 year old Adrian Beltre. Needless to say that is NOT a good thing. There were also five 15 yr olds, ten 16 yr olds, and thiry-sx 17 year olds. This seems to be a major issue and while the number of 17 year olds isn't too "unreal", the number of 14 and 15 year olds seems WAY off. Perhaps more work needs to be done on debut dates. I will continue testing and post as info becomes available. On a side note, I found that the results from the 1993 season were VERY good in terms of total league output. Some work needs to be done in terms of which players are putting up the numbers but overall I think it is pretty good. My major concern is long term replay and how well these 16-18 year olds will develop.

03-15-2006, 05:38 PM	#25 (permalink)
Cowboys3356 All Star Starter Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,382 Thanks: 8 Thanked 5x in 5 posts	The roster set is actually playing pretty well and the youngsters are the only downside. I guess I could manually alter their debut dates but it might be best if Gambo did that himself and then reissued the database. If the debut dates were brought under control just a bit and if the young pitchers stopped importing as "supermen" then I have to say this database is pretty darn good. My roster set will have over 2,000 players so it should make an awesome base for anyone wanting to do a long term career league.

03-15-2006, 08:56 PM	#26 (permalink)
Cowboys3356 All Star Starter Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,382 Thanks: 8 Thanked 5x in 5 posts	Here are the stats that Barry "Balco" Bonds put up in one of my 1993 test run seasons: 159G, 496AB, 178H, 166R, 23Doubles, 11Triples, 61HR, 154RBI, 169BB, .359AVG, .521OBP, 1.339OPS, 63SB, 69K, 16IW, I am not saying whether those numbers are accurate or inaccurate, I just thought they were pretty impressive! On a side note the award winners were: AL Cy Young: Roger Clemens NL Cy Young: Kevin Rogers?!?!?!? AL ROY: Troy Neel?!?!? NL ROY: Mike Piazza AL MVP: Jim Thome NL MVP: Barry Bonds World Series Winner: Texas Rangers

03-16-2006, 06:11 PM	#28 (permalink)
Gambo All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,659 Thanks: 26 Thanked 426x in 221 posts	BTW, Cowboys i'm glad your working on this project because it's giving me the input i've been looking for on this database since I started. I'm curious as to whether player creation modifiers or the player evaluation modifiers will have any effect on how the pitchers are viewed.

03-16-2006, 07:23 PM	#29 (permalink)
Gambo All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,659 Thanks: 26 Thanked 426x in 221 posts	Yup, it does seem like the game is imported the pitchers nearly identical to their talent ratings. So their real good already and they have no room to grow. I dont see it as much during the initial import but I definately do with the subsequent drafts. I dont remember having this problem before. Does anybody who used my DB previously remember noticing this? I'm curious as to whether this is a 6.5 issue or a database issue because the batters seem to be okay and nobody mentioned the pitching issue before.

03-18-2006, 01:34 AM	#30 (permalink)
Gambo All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,659 Thanks: 26 Thanked 426x in 221 posts	Well there does seem to be a problem with the imports at least with the pitchers, but I do have a couple of ideas on how to fix it. I'll post information on an updated version shortly.

03-21-2006, 04:52 PM	#32 (permalink)
Gambo All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,659 Thanks: 26 Thanked 426x in 221 posts	I've decided due to time constraints and with the new game coming out soon I'm gonna hold off on fixing up the database until then. I dont want to waste time fixing up this stuff if the next iteration is gonna make those changes moot. If anybody was waiting patiently i'm sorry.