Historical roster building technique

sportsnut101 · 05-18-2006, 08:47 PM

A friend I made through a league i joined explained to me that when creating a new historical league using Lahmans or Ankits, will result in the omission of many prospects.

He told me a technique whereas you go back and generate previous drafts, up to 10 years, and then create the ommited players.

Has anyone created rosters like this?

Im trying to get some insight.

Cowboys3356 · 05-18-2006, 10:52 PM

Those databases don't exactly omit any players, they just have them debut at times that some people are not comfortable with. Most rookies will debut when they are ready to play instead of when they actually got drafted. The way OOTP is set up it is best to have rookies come into a league at a point when they are somewhat developed because rookie development is poor at best and completely random. The next OOTP version might be different but we will have to wait and see.

sportsnut101 · 05-18-2006, 10:57 PM

Well, i created a historical league, importing from Ankits, 1990

Many of the 1990 draftees are NOT on the rosters.

most actually.

Therefore im lead to believe to make an accurate roster set for a specific year, you must go back several seasons, get the names and create them manually.

Cowboys3356 · 05-19-2006, 09:37 PM

Thats not the way I do it but what do I know about creating roster sets.

mandersen · 05-19-2006, 09:44 PM

btw, meant to tell you, your 87 and beyond league........missing Rafael Palmeiro from the Cubs. LOL. I was the guy he talked to and I told him how I created the initial GABL league file. Your point about random development is well taken. I wanted accurate minor league systems when we started, and the whole purpose of GABL, or one of them, was to import ammy's the year they were drafted, not the year they reached the majors. 2 ways to skin a cat I suppose

Cowboys3356 · 05-20-2006, 09:41 PM

I couldn't agree more and that was actually the point I was attempting to make. The available databases have the rookies "show up" around the time they actually appeared in the major leagues, not when they were drafted. Trouble is that if you get away from the database importing "schedule" then you will be unable to import future rookies and your league will either be full of duplicate players or become a fictional league. Of course that doesn't even get into the issue of players not developing. I would suggest your method for a one season replay and my method for a long term dynasty. But again that is just my opinion.

Gambo · 05-22-2006, 11:52 PM

The problem with players coming in as rookies in some DBs or being omitted or guys missing initial seasons not ever being imported is the reason I did my DB the way I did.

Basically my DB includes everyplayer who played after 1901 (pre-1900 doesn't concern me), it uses Ankits DB as its' base but I added back in all the players who he omitted. I use each player's actual professional debut year as his initial import year and used some basic formulas to create "progressive minor league stats" to fill in the gaps between his Ankit Debut and Pro Debut, in the correct organization for each year.

For those players who were omitted due to limited appearances I used their actual stats combined with an average to give them a career average which hopefully reflects their ability.

I also filled in the gaps for players who skipped seasons with their average stats so that there are no players who will be skipped.

So basically, you can start from any season and never have to worry about players being missed. The readme explains a bit more...

mandersen · 05-24-2006, 01:32 AM

I love your db for rookies Gambo, the problem I have with starting with yours is it don't show the established players previous history if I'm not mistaken, unlike Ankits or Lahman. I started with the Ankits DB for GABL, started in 77, went back with the help of baseball cube, put in all the rookies that had been drafted in the previous 10 years but had not yet made their major league debuts, and then initially used baseball cube for all of our ammy drafts, and created my own ammy's, but after you released your set, we've been using your db for our ammy drafts. It was a time consuming process, but I do think it gave me the most accurate 1977 roster set I could have possibly had with fairly accurate minor league systems.

Gambo · 05-24-2006, 05:59 PM

Thanks...

If you do a raw import using my DB then it wont have the histories, however, i describe in my readme how to use notepad to copy in the previous seasons so that with the initial import you can have their previous stats...

I've done it a few times so it takes me under 5 minutes, the process is quick and easy.

sportsnut101 · 05-25-2006, 12:30 AM

Im not sure you understand what we mean Gambo.

Youre DB DOES NOT include draftees because they have not played.

Is there an easier way to include them without adding them manually?

Gambo · 05-26-2006, 12:34 AM

If your talking about starting a league in 1990 and mean the players who were drafted before 1990 but haven't made their ML debut then yes my DB does include them.

Then again, I may just be totally confused and have no idea what your talking about... it wouldnt be the first time

05-18-2006, 08:47 PM	#1 (permalink)
sportsnut101 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 29 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 posts	Historical roster building technique A friend I made through a league i joined explained to me that when creating a new historical league using Lahmans or Ankits, will result in the omission of many prospects. He told me a technique whereas you go back and generate previous drafts, up to 10 years, and then create the ommited players. Has anyone created rosters like this? Im trying to get some insight.

05-19-2006, 09:44 PM	#5 (permalink)
mandersen Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 208 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 posts	btw, meant to tell you, your 87 and beyond league........missing Rafael Palmeiro from the Cubs. LOL. I was the guy he talked to and I told him how I created the initial GABL league file. Your point about random development is well taken. I wanted accurate minor league systems when we started, and the whole purpose of GABL, or one of them, was to import ammy's the year they were drafted, not the year they reached the majors. 2 ways to skin a cat I suppose __________________ Legend Killer GABL Cubs GABL Commish

05-24-2006, 01:32 AM	#8 (permalink)
mandersen Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 208 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 posts	I love your db for rookies Gambo, the problem I have with starting with yours is it don't show the established players previous history if I'm not mistaken, unlike Ankits or Lahman. I started with the Ankits DB for GABL, started in 77, went back with the help of baseball cube, put in all the rookies that had been drafted in the previous 10 years but had not yet made their major league debuts, and then initially used baseball cube for all of our ammy drafts, and created my own ammy's, but after you released your set, we've been using your db for our ammy drafts. It was a time consuming process, but I do think it gave me the most accurate 1977 roster set I could have possibly had with fairly accurate minor league systems. __________________ Legend Killer GABL Cubs GABL Commish

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05-18-2006, 10:52 PM	#2 (permalink)
Cowboys3356 All Star Starter Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,382 Thanks: 8 Thanked 5x in 5 posts	Those databases don't exactly omit any players, they just have them debut at times that some people are not comfortable with. Most rookies will debut when they are ready to play instead of when they actually got drafted. The way OOTP is set up it is best to have rookies come into a league at a point when they are somewhat developed because rookie development is poor at best and completely random. The next OOTP version might be different but we will have to wait and see.

05-18-2006, 10:57 PM	#3 (permalink)
sportsnut101 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 29 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 posts	Well, i created a historical league, importing from Ankits, 1990 Many of the 1990 draftees are NOT on the rosters. most actually. Therefore im lead to believe to make an accurate roster set for a specific year, you must go back several seasons, get the names and create them manually.

05-19-2006, 09:37 PM	#4 (permalink)
Cowboys3356 All Star Starter Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,382 Thanks: 8 Thanked 5x in 5 posts	Thats not the way I do it but what do I know about creating roster sets.

05-20-2006, 09:41 PM	#6 (permalink)
Cowboys3356 All Star Starter Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,382 Thanks: 8 Thanked 5x in 5 posts	I couldn't agree more and that was actually the point I was attempting to make. The available databases have the rookies "show up" around the time they actually appeared in the major leagues, not when they were drafted. Trouble is that if you get away from the database importing "schedule" then you will be unable to import future rookies and your league will either be full of duplicate players or become a fictional league. Of course that doesn't even get into the issue of players not developing. I would suggest your method for a one season replay and my method for a long term dynasty. But again that is just my opinion.

05-22-2006, 11:52 PM	#7 (permalink)
Gambo All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,659 Thanks: 26 Thanked 426x in 221 posts	The problem with players coming in as rookies in some DBs or being omitted or guys missing initial seasons not ever being imported is the reason I did my DB the way I did. Basically my DB includes everyplayer who played after 1901 (pre-1900 doesn't concern me), it uses Ankits DB as its' base but I added back in all the players who he omitted. I use each player's actual professional debut year as his initial import year and used some basic formulas to create "progressive minor league stats" to fill in the gaps between his Ankit Debut and Pro Debut, in the correct organization for each year. For those players who were omitted due to limited appearances I used their actual stats combined with an average to give them a career average which hopefully reflects their ability. I also filled in the gaps for players who skipped seasons with their average stats so that there are no players who will be skipped. So basically, you can start from any season and never have to worry about players being missed. The readme explains a bit more...

05-24-2006, 05:59 PM	#9 (permalink)
Gambo All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,659 Thanks: 26 Thanked 426x in 221 posts	Thanks... If you do a raw import using my DB then it wont have the histories, however, i describe in my readme how to use notepad to copy in the previous seasons so that with the initial import you can have their previous stats... I've done it a few times so it takes me under 5 minutes, the process is quick and easy.

05-25-2006, 12:30 AM	#10 (permalink)
sportsnut101 Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 29 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 posts	Im not sure you understand what we mean Gambo. Youre DB DOES NOT include draftees because they have not played. Is there an easier way to include them without adding them manually?

05-26-2006, 12:34 AM	#11 (permalink)
Gambo All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,659 Thanks: 26 Thanked 426x in 221 posts	If your talking about starting a league in 1990 and mean the players who were drafted before 1990 but haven't made their ML debut then yes my DB does include them. Then again, I may just be totally confused and have no idea what your talking about... it wouldnt be the first time