Armour Field

Teflon Skies · 06-04-2003, 10:39 PM

Those of you who saw Henry's post with the three concept ballparks will probably recognize this one. Armour Field was designed in the late 80's to demonstrate a neighborhood-style of design as one possibility to replace Old Comiskey Park. The park that the White Sox DID build has received much criticism for being basically a suburban style stadium in a massive parking lot with a remote upper deck. While Armour Field was a nice effort, it probably would have been inappropriate for the south side. The idea of a neighborhood park is to integrate fans into the neighborhood - a scary prospect given Comiskey's neighborhood. Some people attending Sox games are probably glad to have a big parking lot between themselves and the neighborhood. Also, Armour Field had the exact same upper deck issue as New Comiskey Park with the distance from home plate to the front of the upper deck being identical (160 feet) By contrast, the farthest row away from home plate in the upper deck of Old Comiskey Park was 150 feet. This was because stadiums used to be built with the upper decks overhanging the lower decks and using pillars for support. Because of the horror of having some obstructed seats in the high rent district, stadiums of the present now make everybody in the upper deck pay for the unobstructed seats below by sitting much farther away from the game. Armour Field could have reduced it's footprint (one of it's selling points was it's compact layout) even more by going retro on the upper deck. Because of the odd shape of Armour Field, the playing dimensions are just bizarre - short short lines shooting out to humongous power alleys. Sort of a Polo Grounds meets Coors Field. A team would have to have three sprinters in the outfield to try and combat the enormous number of balls that will turn into doubles and triples in this park.

The image I have uploaded is based on the elevation drawings I saw in the book "Green Cathedrals" and on the architects web site. I tried to be as exact and accurate as possible. The only thing I changed was to add two light standards to the outfield. The original design only has lights around the infield. I had trouble believing that would have been sufficient to light a major league playing field.

I don't know the specific dimensions. Perhaps Henry can tack on a footnote if he knows them.

scoobz0202 · 06-04-2003, 10:41 PM

Amazing.. This is just..wow..

Andy · 06-04-2003, 10:49 PM

Very nice!

PineTar · 06-04-2003, 10:58 PM

Based upon the angle of the city background, the location of this park lies somewhere in the museum district (Field Museium, Adler Planetarium, Shedd Aquarium). Basically, this stadium would be right next to Soldier Field, not on the south side.

Looks absolutely stunning nonetheless.

Henry · 06-04-2003, 11:01 PM

Fantastic Job Teflon !! I was hoping you would try your hand at these three parks

I used the ballpark diagrams and estimate the following...

LF line 295
LF (at bend in fence) 400
LeftCenter (at 2nd bend in fence) 440
Dead Center 425
RightCenter 440
RF 400
RF line 295

The fence in your drawing looks to be what - about 8 feet high ?

(reminds me of the Polo Grounds)

Henry · 06-04-2003, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by PineTar
Based upon the angle of the city background, the location of this park lies somewhere in the museum district (Field Museium, Adler Planetarium, Shedd Aquarium). Basically, this stadium would be right next to Soldier Field, not on the south side.

Looks absolutely stunning nonetheless.

The backdrop Teflon picked was an available one - but Armour Field really was to set where Comiskey II sits today.

Modern Relic · 06-04-2003, 11:05 PM

Another excellent job. Any chance of a version without the White Sox references? Then it could be used for fictional leagues as well.

LedgerSko · 06-04-2003, 11:23 PM

even though I see the point on the perspective its still a damn nice stadium !!

Eugene Church · 06-05-2003, 01:36 AM

Another great stadium !!

I hope you can make it generic...but I'll still use it if you don't.

Now I only need about 48 more stadiums for my alltime allstar league teams.

Teflon Skies · 06-05-2003, 07:36 AM

Yes as Henry said available pictures from the Comiskey area looking north (or any direction) are non-existent on the web. This was the closest perspective I could find - and it's NOT in the museum district - it's actually IN Lake Michigan for anyone who needs to apply that level of geographic precision. I will post a generic version of the stadium this evening.

Eugene Church · 06-05-2003, 08:42 AM

Thanks for the generic.

People like you and Henry really add to the OOTPB game and community.

Tyke · 06-05-2003, 11:33 AM

More excellent work! What would the capacity be, do you reckon?

Teflon Skies · 06-05-2003, 01:05 PM

I believe the capacity was around 42,000. Here a couple of links that contain further information. The first is the website the designer of Armour Field, Phillip Bess, put together to support his book on the topic "City Baseball Magic":

Armour Field by Thursday Architects

The second is a review of Mr. Bess' s book by the online baseball magazine "The Diamond Angle" :

Magic Lacking in Armour Field

DreamTeams · 06-05-2003, 01:24 PM

Love the Polo Ground feel to this park. Collecting your park designs has become a hobby in itself, Tefy. Thanks.

Kronos · 06-05-2003, 01:49 PM

Wow..Nice!

Dargone · 06-05-2003, 04:31 PM

Awesome

KC · 06-05-2003, 08:14 PM

Like the tribute to Shoeless Joe on the scoreboard.

Teflon Skies · 06-05-2003, 10:20 PM

I was lucky with the Shoeless Joe picture. That is the same picture used on the scoreboard in the concept drawing by the architect. A good thing about players from the 1910's and 1920's - if there's a picture of them -there's not usually more than a couple. It only took a few clicks on Google image search to find it.

I see that Shoeless Joe is also not officially recognized for his 3rd highest lifetime batting average because MLB has made it a 5000 AB minimum to be listed. Joe Jackson was 19 AB short...

HolyCow98 · 06-05-2003, 11:44 PM

I have every single park you have released...and to tell you the truth...you seem to be getting better and better...that is a scary thought...

Yet another awesome addition to an already impressive collection...

asaintsfan · 06-07-2003, 07:02 AM

They just keep getting better and better andbetter ..............

06-04-2003, 10:39 PM	#1 (permalink)
Teflon Skies Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 122 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 posts	Armour Field Those of you who saw Henry's post with the three concept ballparks will probably recognize this one. Armour Field was designed in the late 80's to demonstrate a neighborhood-style of design as one possibility to replace Old Comiskey Park. The park that the White Sox DID build has received much criticism for being basically a suburban style stadium in a massive parking lot with a remote upper deck. While Armour Field was a nice effort, it probably would have been inappropriate for the south side. The idea of a neighborhood park is to integrate fans into the neighborhood - a scary prospect given Comiskey's neighborhood. Some people attending Sox games are probably glad to have a big parking lot between themselves and the neighborhood. Also, Armour Field had the exact same upper deck issue as New Comiskey Park with the distance from home plate to the front of the upper deck being identical (160 feet) By contrast, the farthest row away from home plate in the upper deck of Old Comiskey Park was 150 feet. This was because stadiums used to be built with the upper decks overhanging the lower decks and using pillars for support. Because of the horror of having some obstructed seats in the high rent district, stadiums of the present now make everybody in the upper deck pay for the unobstructed seats below by sitting much farther away from the game. Armour Field could have reduced it's footprint (one of it's selling points was it's compact layout) even more by going retro on the upper deck. Because of the odd shape of Armour Field, the playing dimensions are just bizarre - short short lines shooting out to humongous power alleys. Sort of a Polo Grounds meets Coors Field. A team would have to have three sprinters in the outfield to try and combat the enormous number of balls that will turn into doubles and triples in this park. The image I have uploaded is based on the elevation drawings I saw in the book "Green Cathedrals" and on the architects web site. I tried to be as exact and accurate as possible. The only thing I changed was to add two light standards to the outfield. The original design only has lights around the infield. I had trouble believing that would have been sufficient to light a major league playing field. I don't know the specific dimensions. Perhaps Henry can tack on a footnote if he knows them. Attached Images Last edited by Teflon Skies; 06-04-2003 at 10:44 PM.

06-04-2003, 10:49 PM	#3 (permalink)
Andy All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Dayton, OH Posts: 1,585 Thanks: 2 Thanked 0x in 0 posts	Very nice! __________________ My CD Collection

06-04-2003, 10:58 PM	#4 (permalink)
PineTar Minors (Double A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 154 Thanks: 5 Thanked 1x in 1 post	Based upon the angle of the city background, the location of this park lies somewhere in the museum district (Field Museium, Adler Planetarium, Shedd Aquarium). Basically, this stadium would be right next to Soldier Field, not on the south side. Looks absolutely stunning nonetheless. __________________

06-04-2003, 11:01 PM	#5 (permalink)
Henry Hall of Fame Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 6,455 Thanks: 21 Thanked 163x in 70 posts	Fantastic Job Teflon !! I was hoping you would try your hand at these three parks I used the ballpark diagrams and estimate the following... LF line 295 LF (at bend in fence) 400 LeftCenter (at 2nd bend in fence) 440 Dead Center 425 RightCenter 440 RF 400 RF line 295 The fence in your drawing looks to be what - about 8 feet high ? (reminds me of the Polo Grounds) Last edited by Henry; 06-05-2003 at 07:43 AM.

06-04-2003, 11:05 PM	#7 (permalink)
Modern Relic All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 1,267 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1x in 1 post	Another excellent job. Any chance of a version without the White Sox references? Then it could be used for fictional leagues as well. __________________ American Folklore Baseball League (closed): Commissioner/GM - Mudville Nine (ruled!) Former member of Boys of Summer: GM - St. Louis Browns (doormats!) Former member of the OTBL: GM - Gashouse Gorillas (also ruled!) "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." Rogers Hornsby

06-04-2003, 10:41 PM	#2 (permalink)
scoobz0202 All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Celina, Ohio Posts: 968 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 posts	Amazing.. This is just..wow..

06-04-2003, 11:23 PM	#8 (permalink)
LedgerSko All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 1,085 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1x in 1 post	even though I see the point on the perspective its still a damn nice stadium !!

06-05-2003, 01:36 AM	#9 (permalink)
Eugene Church Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 17,080 Thanks: 100 Thanked 100x in 52 posts	Another great stadium !! I hope you can make it generic...but I'll still use it if you don't. Now I only need about 48 more stadiums for my alltime allstar league teams.

06-05-2003, 07:36 AM	#10 (permalink)
Teflon Skies Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 122 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 posts	Yes as Henry said available pictures from the Comiskey area looking north (or any direction) are non-existent on the web. This was the closest perspective I could find - and it's NOT in the museum district - it's actually IN Lake Michigan for anyone who needs to apply that level of geographic precision. I will post a generic version of the stadium this evening.

06-05-2003, 08:42 AM	#11 (permalink)
Eugene Church Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 17,080 Thanks: 100 Thanked 100x in 52 posts	Thanks for the generic. People like you and Henry really add to the OOTPB game and community.

06-05-2003, 11:33 AM	#12 (permalink)
Tyke All Star Reserve Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Brighouse, West Yorkshire, U.K. Posts: 501 Thanks: 180 Thanked 37x in 26 posts	More excellent work! What would the capacity be, do you reckon?

06-05-2003, 01:05 PM	#13 (permalink)
Teflon Skies Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 122 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 posts	I believe the capacity was around 42,000. Here a couple of links that contain further information. The first is the website the designer of Armour Field, Phillip Bess, put together to support his book on the topic "City Baseball Magic": Armour Field by Thursday Architects The second is a review of Mr. Bess' s book by the online baseball magazine "The Diamond Angle" : Magic Lacking in Armour Field

06-05-2003, 01:24 PM	#14 (permalink)
DreamTeams All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 1,747 Thanks: 66 Thanked 132x in 99 posts	Love the Polo Ground feel to this park. Collecting your park designs has become a hobby in itself, Tefy. Thanks. __________________ - DreamTeams Read about my solo Metro Leagues

06-05-2003, 01:49 PM	#15 (permalink)
Kronos Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Northern Ky. Posts: 167 Thanks: 4 Thanked 7x in 6 posts	Wow..Nice!

06-05-2003, 04:31 PM	#16 (permalink)
Dargone Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Interwebs Posts: 2,681 Thanks: 0 Thanked 43x in 15 posts	Awesome __________________ I was never one to patiently pick up broken fragments and glue them together again and tell myself that the mended whole was as good as new. What is broken is broken -- and I'd rather remember it as it was at its best than mend it and see the broken places as long as I lived.-Margaret Mitchell

06-05-2003, 08:14 PM	#17 (permalink)
KC Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: On my ass, you wanker. Now, sod off. Posts: 401 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1x in 1 post	Like the tribute to Shoeless Joe on the scoreboard. __________________ KC Ted Williams: "When you foul a pitch off, does it ever smell like scorched wood?" Mark McGwire: "All the time."

06-05-2003, 10:20 PM	#18 (permalink)
Teflon Skies Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 122 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 posts	I was lucky with the Shoeless Joe picture. That is the same picture used on the scoreboard in the concept drawing by the architect. A good thing about players from the 1910's and 1920's - if there's a picture of them -there's not usually more than a couple. It only took a few clicks on Google image search to find it. I see that Shoeless Joe is also not officially recognized for his 3rd highest lifetime batting average because MLB has made it a 5000 AB minimum to be listed. Joe Jackson was 19 AB short...

06-05-2003, 11:44 PM	#19 (permalink)
HolyCow98 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Douglasville, GA Posts: 2,603 Thanks: 6 Thanked 1x in 1 post	I have every single park you have released...and to tell you the truth...you seem to be getting better and better...that is a scary thought... Yet another awesome addition to an already impressive collection...

06-07-2003, 07:02 AM	#20 (permalink)
asaintsfan Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Born and raised in New Orleans LA Posts: 249 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2x in 1 post	They just keep getting better and better andbetter ..............

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