Ottawa Otters, contest additions

[nmleague]

Anyone that wants to do a logo for the Ottawa Otters, but not enter the logo contest is welcome to post their logo here. Here are two to start.

[Eugene Church]

Nicely done, nmleague.

You have really developed the figure inside of a letter concept. It is unique and a good concept. I have several fictional teams that might need one similar to that. Hope you will try to create it when I request it.

[nmleague]

Would be happy to do a logo for any of your requests, I think our tastes in logos and how they mesh with the game are much different from the current logo contest entries.

[Eugene Church]

Originally Posted by nmleague

Would be happy to do a logo for any of your requests, I think our tastes in logos and how they mesh with the game are much different from the current logo contest entries.

We are a couple of old dinosaurs when it comes to logo styles, aren't we?

Plus they have to show up well in the game.

I could use any of the logos in the current list as long as the text shows up well in the game.

They are all very well done.

And thanks for offering to do my logos...you have done some beautiful ones in the past...some of my favorites are yours.

[nmleague]

Yes we are dinaosaurs, also being over 50 and with no graphics/art training I do what I can. But I think that the main requirement of any logo done for OOTP is one that looks good in the game. If a logo has text that cant be seen or read on the game PvP screen then it is not a game logo it is a piece of art done for other purposes.

[Eugene Church]

Originally Posted by nmleague

Yes we are dinaosaurs, also being over 50 and with no graphics/art training I do what I can. But I think that the main requirement of any logo done for OOTP is one that looks good in the game. If a logo has text that cant be seen or read on the game PvP screen then it is not a game logo it is a piece of art done for other purposes.

I didn't know you were over 50 like me.

Maybe it a generational thing when it comes to logos.

I wish I could do logos like you.

This is a good idea you had to get designers who might be intimidated by the skill level of the Favorites Competition. It has got to be frustrating to spend a lot of time creating a logo and then not getting much support in the voting...but this has happened. Cuss and LGO have dominated the voting and might have dampened the egos of some of our fine designers. I personally think the quality of the logos are much closer than the polls indicate...but we can only pick one...and that leave out a bunch of talented designers.

[nmleague]

The competition is a little frustrating, no doubt all the entries are very good, and it is easy to see that some of the designers have extensive art/graphic design training. As an example Cuss is an outstanding artist, but his entry for this week looks great at a large size but I would not under any circumstances use it in the game with text so small it cant be read. But it is getting many votes, seems like a little fan boy thing here. Designing a logo that works well in the game and one that looks great artistically don't have to be mutually exclusive, but it seems they are. Maybe the competition should have had two catagories, one for design for a real life team that they would use for marketing etc., and one that is strictly a design for use in the game.

[nmleague]

Two more.

[Eugene Church]

Originally Posted by nmleague

Two more.

nmleague, what about trying to use an already produced logo...or a drawn otter...rather than a real one?

Here is a real logo:

http://www.riverotters.com/

[BigCity]

Originally Posted by nmleague

The competition is a little frustrating, no doubt all the entries are very good, and it is easy to see that some of the designers have extensive art/graphic design training. As an example Cuss is an outstanding artist, but his entry for this week looks great at a large size but I would not under any circumstances use it in the game with text so small it cant be read. But it is getting many votes, seems like a little fan boy thing here. Designing a logo that works well in the game and one that looks great artistically don't have to be mutually exclusive, but it seems they are. Maybe the competition should have had two catagories, one for design for a real life team that they would use for marketing etc., and one that is strictly a design for use in the game.

Good point. Right now I think the votes are going for the best overall "quality" logo. Cuss is certainly going to place well in that light. However, when you add the necessity to look good in the envirnment it needs to be used, it becomes a bit harder - since all the artistic tools you "might" use aren't available to you "to" use.

The contest is a great idea - and can certainly continue under current rules, but your suggestion of a two-class contest is interesting also. The "game class" catagory could also require a snapshot from within the game somewhere.

[nmleague]

Good idea Eugene, since these arent contest entries minor league or other sport graphics arent excluded. Here is a shot of two of these in the game play screen, these are the actual size on my game screen. The shot I had was to large to load, so I cropped the everything but the two logos to get them to load. The nice thing is that text on both of these can be read on the lineup matchup screen, at the top, and still somewhat for each player matchup.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Eugene Church

It has got to be frustrating to spend a lot of time creating a logo and then not getting much support in the voting ... might have dampened the egos of some of our fine designers.

I've thought about that, and the only thing I can say is for someone to be happy with their own work. In the end, that's really what one should be doing, designing something that they themselves like. Please yourself first. Of course, it's gratifying if others find the logo nice as well, but ultimately one should be satisfied with their own work.

That's the path I take. It's a bit irritating when something doesn't get as much notice as I think it's worth (like my circular San Antonio Tejanos, I was quite pleased with how that turned out), but I let that pass quickly. I still like it!

So, just try to pick up tips and ideas where one can to improve one's work, and then aim to satisfy what is generally anyone's most difficult critic: themselves.

Originally Posted by nmleague

Designing a logo that works well in the game and one that looks great artistically don't have to be mutually exclusive, but it seems they are.

There are definitely those two approaches - to make something which is perfectly suited to the demands of the game, or to make something which looks like what a real-world logo might look like.

My bias is towards making a logo which conceivably looks like it could be a real logo (this is why I generally don't like square logos - they don't look like what a real-world logo would look like). That said, I try to balance making it look like a real logo while still being reasonably well-suited to the game's requirements.

Those requirements do pose some challenges. The 150x150 size often makes something look not quite as good as it does at a larger size; another problem is the square nature of the size. A lot of real logos are more rectangular in layout, and if you try to do that you end up losing a lot of the height of the logo because of the square OOTP size requirement. Sometimes I wish OOTP allowed for a 200 or 225 pixel wide logo.

But for a square size, the traditional circular logo is a pretty good fit, plus it just feels like what a baseball logo should be like, so I end up following that layout a lot. It's hard sometimes breaking away from that...

[littlechris1977]

Don't get frustrated NMLeague, I can tell which logos are yours and you probably feel inferior to Cuss because he's got all the tools, but don't stop submitting because it leads to competition.

[Eugene Church]

nmleague, I like screenshot 2 (of course, I would...I suggested it).

You might need a better contrasting color for the lettering...it kind of blends in with the background.

[littlechris1977]

Screenshot 2 looks good.

[Eugene Church]

Originally Posted by nmleague

The competition is a little frustrating, no doubt all the entries are very good, and it is easy to see that some of the designers have extensive art/graphic design training. As an example Cuss is an outstanding artist, but his entry for this week looks great at a large size but I would not under any circumstances use it in the game with text so small it cant be read. But it is getting many votes, seems like a little fan boy thing here. Designing a logo that works well in the game and one that looks great artistically don't have to be mutually exclusive, but it seems they are. Maybe the competition should have had two catagories, one for design for a real life team that they would use for marketing etc., and one that is strictly a design for use in the game.

I don't think people vote for Cuss because they are fans of his...I think they vote for Cuss because he is a very skilled logo designer.

I am a big fan of yours...you have done me many fine logos...some of my best logos have been done by you...but I am sad to say I didn't vote for one of yours because I thought someone else work was better...and I think that is the case with most people.

In fact, I seem to recall somebody who entered a logo didn't even vote for his own creation...he said someone else had a better logo and voted for it...I think he voted for Cuss.

[nmleague]

I don't want to give the wrong impression, I have voted for other peoples logos in each week of the competition. Actually I think the multiple choice vote is the best, for each competition there have been a number of outstanding logos but one or two that outshine the rest, unforuntately with the one vote system a number of logos that are decent get no votes. My objection from the first has been that Cuss along with some others have done logos with text or detail so small that it cannot be read or seen in the game. Since this was started as a competition for OOTP logos it would stand to reason that a major criteria would be that the logos actually should work well in the game. I don't care how excellant a logo is, and there is no doubt that the Logos done by Cuss are usually the best artistically, they should not recieve votes if they don't work in the game. That is why I stated it seems that many have a great admiration, well deserved, for Cuss's logos, and vote for them even though they don't compare well with many other when viewed in the game. With the limited 150 x 150 space the designers face a real problem. If you want to have the team city and name in text large enough to read in the game you have to difinite space restrictions for the rest of the logo. Its much different to do a logo when you are paying attention to that restraint.

[Eugene Church]

Originally Posted by nmleague

My objection from the first has been that Cuss along with some others have done logos with text or detail so small that it cannot be read or seen in the game. Since this was started as a competition for OOTP logos it would stand to reason that a major criteria would be that the logos actually should work well in the game. I don't care how excellant a logo is, and there is no doubt that the Logos done by Cuss are usually the best artistically, they should not recieve votes if they don't work in the game. That is why I stated it seems that many have a great admiration, well deserved, for Cuss's logos, and vote for them even though they don't compare well with many other when viewed in the game. With the limited 150 x 150 space the designers face a real problem. If you want to have the team city and name in text large enough to read in the game you have to difinite space restrictions for the rest of the logo. Its much different to do a logo when you are paying attention to that restraint.

I see your point and I personally agree with you. I don't use logos in my leagues that have text too small to see well. Most of the time the designers will enlarge it for you. If he doesn't, sometimes I don't use them. But not everybody is like you and me...they don't seem to notice the small text.

The logo committee didn't put any requirements that text had to be large enough to show up in the game. We just asked them to create a logo...and that's what they did. Some make the text large and some don't...and I agree with you that this might create a handicap for the ones who make the text large enough to be seen in the game...this means they have less space to create a logo. But I don't want to criticize the ones who used smaller text. Each designer could make that same choice if he so wanted.

[LivnLegend]

I may be missing the point here and if I am, kindly ignore me

I by no means will tell you what you can or can't post here but I have to wonder why you would post logos using the Logo Contest suggestions and encourage others to also do so prior to the voting of the entries? I'm pretty sure it's not meant this way but it seems like a snub to those who are participating in the contest.

You can post whatever logos you like whenever you like of course. Why you are choosing to post your own logos from the Contest suggestions without entering them seems odd. Perhaps you can either make logos from alternative cities and nicknames or wait and post yours after each weekly contest is over? Or better yet, return to submitting your designs to the contest! I think your designs are distinctive and creative and you certainly have your fans. Maybe your logos do not appeal to as wide a group as cuss and LGO's have (so far) but that sure does not mean you have to stop entering.

I have absolutely no graphic training other than what I have learned playing around with Photoshop. I know my stuff does not stack up to others' but I like the idea of putting mine in with the rest, hoping for a vote or two, and knowing I did my best and was able to contribute toward a worthwhile, fun, and interactive project in this community. I encourage everyone to continue with it if they like to design logos and not to worry about whether or not the same people "win" each week.

The last thing I want is any of the "favorites" to drop out because they feel bad that others are complaining their logos will never win as long as the ringers are in it. How does the community benefit if logo makers drop out for fear of alienating a few other designers?

Anyway, do as you wish but I wanted to add my two cents!

[dougaiton]

Originally Posted by Eugene Church

The logo committee didn't put any requirements that text had to be large enough to show up in the game. We just asked them to create a logo...and that's what they did. Some make the text large and some don't...and I agree with you that this might create a handicap for the ones who make the text large enough to be seen in the game...this means they have less space to create a logo. But I don't want to criticize the ones who used smaller text. Each designer could make that same choice if he so wanted.

Indeed. It's also worth pointing out that for me, the little 'in-game' logo isn't so important because I sim a lot. The important things are (a) how the logo shows up on the larger FA/trade screen, and (b)whether I can recognise the logo is a different general colour that the others in the league, so I can spot it easily.

It's pretty unfair for me to vote based on this, considering I just add a wash to the back of any logo I use. Whether I can see it in the in-game screen isn't half as important for me as it might be for those who play out there games. That's the beauty of OOTP: different horses for courses.

I'd like to echo LL when saying that I'd like to see these logos back in the contest, nml. I've long been a big fan. The most important off-shoot of the contest is not the winners, but rather the creation of a big pack of logos for each city that people can select from when they set up a custom league. It would be good if they could select yours too - you might want to PM Henry (who I think is putting it together?) to get yours included in that, because they would certainly be missed.