stuff vs. movement

theobscure · 05-18-2006, 05:08 PM

I am playing the free v5 version. I'm a little unsure about what a pitcher's "stuff" means as opposed to "movement." Is "stuff" kind of the bottom line of how a pitcher's "movement" and "velocity" compliment each other?

Garlon · 05-18-2006, 11:51 PM

Stuff = Pitcher's ability to strikeout hitters

Movement = Pitcher's ability to not give up HRs

Control = Pitcher's ability to not walk hitters

Higher is better in every category.

Velocity as far as I know is purely cosmetic and doesn't really effect anything.

sfgiants88 · 05-19-2006, 12:08 AM

Also,

Stuff = Ability to Prevent Hits

mrbill · 05-19-2006, 12:25 AM

Yeah, what these guys said, and I find it easiest just to think of the ratings in V6 as the V5 ratings renamed. Still no interdependence or anything, or too minimal to notice.

There's rumors that GB/FB% will also affect # of HR given up in the next version, but we'll have to see how it works when its released.

sean-patin · 05-19-2006, 12:38 AM

I would agree with how those totals affect a pitcher's stats, but more specifically talking I think of it as this:

Stuff: Say a guy throws a curve, change, fastball (also available on a player's report)... i like to think of stuff as how well his secondary pitches are because those are usually strikeout pitches....

Control: simply how well he locates his pitches and consistency with this...

Movement: how "hittable" his fastball is.... many ppl have movement on their fastballs like Glavine, Maddux who don't throw very hard but still can get outs with their fastball and a lot of the reason is movement....

theobscure · 05-19-2006, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garlon

Stuff = Pitcher's ability to strikeout hitters

Movement = Pitcher's ability to not give up HRs

Control = Pitcher's ability to not walk hitters

Higher is better in every category.

Velocity as far as I know is purely cosmetic and doesn't really effect anything.

ok thanks. I guess I always thought of stuff and movement as the same thing. A guy who's described with great stuff I always thought just meant he had great movement on his pitches.

Now that I think about it though, you never hear them say a knuckleballer has great stuff. I guess that's maybe where I came up with the idea that stuff was some combination of movement and velocity.

theobscure · 05-19-2006, 04:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrbill

Yeah, what these guys said, and I find it easiest just to think of the ratings in V6 as the V5 ratings renamed. Still no interdependence or anything, or too minimal to notice.

There's rumors that GB/FB% will also affect # of HR given up in the next version, but we'll have to see how it works when its released.

by no interdependence do you mean that the ratings values do not translate into his stat production?

mrbill · 05-19-2006, 05:15 AM

I mean, movement doesn't help strike people out, and stuff doesn't keep people from hitting HRs. People assumed the changing names of version 6 and 2006 meant the engine made big changes like that.

But, Stuff = Avoiding Hits/Getting Ks, Movement = Avoidng HR and avoiding 2B, Control = avoiding walks, easiest way to think about it.

There's the possibility that GB% will also affect HR in the upcoming version, but I believe movement will still be the deciding factor in HR allowed.

Mariners · 05-20-2006, 06:13 AM

Taken from a book called Roads to Redemption by Craig W Thomas, 'Stuff' is described thus, "Stuff is what a pitcher has; it's his range of pitches, his speed, the intelligent way he uses his armoury". 'Velocity' is the speed of the pitchers delivery.

KurtBevacqua · 05-21-2006, 08:50 AM

Velocity is not merely cosmetic. No one is completely sure how it's factored in, but presumably a guy with great velocity has a greater potential to improve in stuff and movement. And to verify that velocity is not cosmetic, it is worth 5 points in Spring Training to be used as you wish. So it is of some significance. OTH, pitch selection is totally cosmetic, except for the knuckleball, which can lead to higher wild pitches and passed balls. But in OOTP you can have a one pitch pitcher be as successful as a guy with 5, it matters not.

molarmite · 05-21-2006, 07:32 PM

Will pitch selection be cosmetic in the new version?

ihatenames · 05-24-2006, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KurtBevacqua

Velocity is not merely cosmetic. No one is completely sure how it's factored in, but presumably a guy with great velocity has a greater potential to improve in stuff and movement. And to verify that velocity is not cosmetic, it is worth 5 points in Spring Training to be used as you wish. So it is of some significance. OTH, pitch selection is totally cosmetic, except for the knuckleball, which can lead to higher wild pitches and passed balls. But in OOTP you can have a one pitch pitcher be as successful as a guy with 5, it matters not.

Yeah, i'm pretty sure velocity gives a pitcher a greater chance to "get it together".

05-18-2006, 05:08 PM	#1 (permalink)
theobscure Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 38	stuff vs. movement I am playing the free v5 version. I'm a little unsure about what a pitcher's "stuff" means as opposed to "movement." Is "stuff" kind of the bottom line of how a pitcher's "movement" and "velocity" compliment each other?

05-19-2006, 12:25 AM	#4 (permalink)
mrbill All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: LA, CA Posts: 977	Yeah, what these guys said, and I find it easiest just to think of the ratings in V6 as the V5 ratings renamed. Still no interdependence or anything, or too minimal to notice. There's rumors that GB/FB% will also affect # of HR given up in the next version, but we'll have to see how it works when its released. __________________ UBL - Los Angeles Dodgers: 10 seasons, 4 NL West titles, 1 WC, 4 NL Titles, 2-time Champs LBB (retired) - Detroit Tigers/Commish: 19 seasons, 18 straight AL Central titles, 2006, 2008, 2014, 2015 Champs! NGBL (dead) - Texas Rangers: 10 seasons, 4 AL South titles, 2 Wild Cards, one WS app

05-19-2006, 05:15 AM	#8 (permalink)
mrbill All Star Reserve Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: LA, CA Posts: 977	I mean, movement doesn't help strike people out, and stuff doesn't keep people from hitting HRs. People assumed the changing names of version 6 and 2006 meant the engine made big changes like that. But, Stuff = Avoiding Hits/Getting Ks, Movement = Avoidng HR and avoiding 2B, Control = avoiding walks, easiest way to think about it. There's the possibility that GB% will also affect HR in the upcoming version, but I believe movement will still be the deciding factor in HR allowed. __________________ UBL - Los Angeles Dodgers: 10 seasons, 4 NL West titles, 1 WC, 4 NL Titles, 2-time Champs LBB (retired) - Detroit Tigers/Commish: 19 seasons, 18 straight AL Central titles, 2006, 2008, 2014, 2015 Champs! NGBL (dead) - Texas Rangers: 10 seasons, 4 AL South titles, 2 Wild Cards, one WS app

05-21-2006, 08:50 AM	#10 (permalink)
KurtBevacqua Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 2,820 Blog Entries: 2 Thanked 9x in 7 posts	Velocity is not merely cosmetic. No one is completely sure how it's factored in, but presumably a guy with great velocity has a greater potential to improve in stuff and movement. And to verify that velocity is not cosmetic, it is worth 5 points in Spring Training to be used as you wish. So it is of some significance. OTH, pitch selection is totally cosmetic, except for the knuckleball, which can lead to higher wild pitches and passed balls. But in OOTP you can have a one pitch pitcher be as successful as a guy with 5, it matters not. __________________ "The type and formula of most schemes of philanthropy or humanitarianism is this: A and B put their heads together to decide what C shall be made to do for D. The radical vice of all these schemes, from a sociological point of view, is that C is not allowed a voice in the matter, and his position, character, and interests, as well as the ultimate effects on society through C's interests, are entirely overlooked. I call C the Forgotten Man" - William Graham Sumner

05-21-2006, 07:32 PM	#11 (permalink)
molarmite Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 4,745 Blog Entries: 1 Thanked 75x in 48 posts	Will pitch selection be cosmetic in the new version? __________________ From the wise mind of Davey Eckstein[/SIZE] "Now all you need is a signature. A quote or initial, perhaps."

05-18-2006, 11:51 PM	#2 (permalink)
Garlon All Star Starter Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,551 Thanked 52x in 26 posts	Stuff = Pitcher's ability to strikeout hitters Movement = Pitcher's ability to not give up HRs Control = Pitcher's ability to not walk hitters Higher is better in every category. Velocity as far as I know is purely cosmetic and doesn't really effect anything.

05-19-2006, 12:08 AM	#3 (permalink)
sfgiants88 All Star Reserve Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 885	Also, Stuff = Ability to Prevent Hits

05-19-2006, 12:38 AM	#5 (permalink)
sean-patin Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 205	I would agree with how those totals affect a pitcher's stats, but more specifically talking I think of it as this: Stuff: Say a guy throws a curve, change, fastball (also available on a player's report)... i like to think of stuff as how well his secondary pitches are because those are usually strikeout pitches.... Control: simply how well he locates his pitches and consistency with this... Movement: how "hittable" his fastball is.... many ppl have movement on their fastballs like Glavine, Maddux who don't throw very hard but still can get outs with their fastball and a lot of the reason is movement....

05-20-2006, 06:13 AM	#9 (permalink)
Mariners Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 56	Taken from a book called Roads to Redemption by Craig W Thomas, 'Stuff' is described thus, "Stuff is what a pitcher has; it's his range of pitches, his speed, the intelligent way he uses his armoury". 'Velocity' is the speed of the pitchers delivery.

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