How does OOTP calculate VORP?

[lighthousekeeper]

(Moved this post over here since it wasn't getting answered in another forum)

Is there any place that defines how OOTP is calculating VORP? As other have noted, some VORP numbers seem odd and I'm curious as to the exact equation that OOTP is using. Here's some questions I have related to how ootp calculates VORP:

- What is the replacement player basis being calculated as?
- Is the replacement player value being recalculated each year?
- Are positional differences being accounted for?
- Are these positional differences 'hard coded' (i.e. alwys 75% for catchers), or are these dynamically calculated based on the relative positional performance on a year-by-year basis?

VORP is an advanced statistic, but, like all statistics, is valueless if you don't know how it is determined. I think if we are going to start basing our GM decisions on this stat (that is so prevalently displayed in ootp2006), we need to know exactly how it is being determined. Otherwise, all it gives us is a vague idea of a players performance, and there are already many stats we can use for that.


Any help would be greatly appreciated!<!-- / message -->

[disposableheros]

any help will be greatly appreciated?

ok, here....

you shouldnt base your decisions on VORP alone. its not the be-all end-all stat. it should be used in combination with other stats.

you're welcome!

[Dagrims]

Originally Posted by disposableheros

you shouldnt base your decisions on VORP alone. its not the be-all end-all stat. it should be used in combination with other stats.

I'm bumping the thread because it's a legitimate question, which was completely misinterpreted by the quoted poster. The OP wasn't complaining about the use of VORP as a stat to use by itself in evaluating players, but asking for a confirmation of how OOTP calculates the statistic itself. Unfortunately, I don't know the answer, but I am curious.

[andymac]

Originally Posted by Dagrims

I'm bumping the thread because it's a legitimate question, which was completely misinterpreted by the quoted poster. The OP wasn't complaining about the use of VORP as a stat to use by itself in evaluating players, but asking for a confirmation of how OOTP calculates the statistic itself. Unfortunately, I don't know the answer, but I am curious.

""

[disposableheros]

Originally Posted by Dagrims

I'm bumping the thread because it's a legitimate question, which was completely misinterpreted by the quoted poster. The OP wasn't complaining about the use of VORP as a stat to use by itself in evaluating players, but asking for a confirmation of how OOTP calculates the statistic itself. Unfortunately, I don't know the answer, but I am curious.

im bumping the thread to try to help the quoted posters understand why i posted what i did

Originally Posted by OP

I think if we are going to start basing our GM decisions on this stat (that is so prevalently displayed in ootp2006), we need to know exactly how it is being determined. Otherwise, all it gives us is a vague idea of a players performance, and there are already many stats we can use for that.

i read it like he wants to know how it is determined so he can decide whether to drop all other 'vague' stats to use this stat instead *shrug*

[andymac]

Originally Posted by disposableheros

im bumping the thread to try to help the quoted posters understand why i posted what i did


i read it like he wants to know how it is determined so he can decide whether to drop all other 'vague' stats to use this stat instead *shrug*

He asked for help on understanding how the game calculates VORP, not a GM or SABR vs. Traditional lesson.


I'm not sure anyone other than Markus can answer what he is asking, though.

[His Own Bad Self]

I don't even know how BBPro calculates VORP. If anyone cares to point me in the right direction, that would be good.

The Game Guide offers a short (and somewhat hazy) explanation. Replacement level for hitting is determined by 80% (or so, depending on the player's position) of the league average runs per out. Replacement level for pitching is 1 run over the league average (per 9 innings, presumably). Everything is normalized for park effects and position. Beyond that... beats me.

Also, VORP is measured in runs (AFAIK), so at least there's a real, meaningful unit of measure associated with it.

[lighthousekeeper]

Originally Posted by andymac

He asked for help on understanding how the game calculates VORP, not a GM or SABR vs. Traditional lesson.


I'm not sure anyone other than Markus can answer what he is asking, though.

Thank you - that is correct. I also agree that it appears that only Markus knows the answer to this.


Wikipedia provides a nice description of VORP: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VORP , and I think one line in particular is key here: "It should be noted at this point that critics of VORP take issue with where the formula's arbitrary "replacement level" is set. Many equations and methods exist for finding the replacement level..."

So what is the method?

Markus?

[lighthousekeeper]

Originally Posted by jdawgsenior

Everything is normalized for park effects and position. Beyond that... beats me.

Thanks for the info. This is very helpful (I knew this would end up with me getting yelled at for not reading the guide). But as you note, this is still hazy and it would be great if it is clarified a little.

For example: park effects. Is the game basing it on the park effect ratings that are entered in the game, or by analyzing the results on a year-by-year basis?

Positional basis: is this just looking at the primary declared position of the player, or the position played by the player on a game-by-game basis?

[His Own Bad Self]

Originally Posted by lighthousekeeper

Thanks for the info. This is very helpful (I knew this would end up with me getting yelled at for not reading the guide). But as you note, this is still hazy and it would be great if it is clarified a little.

For example: park effects. Is the game basing it on the park effect ratings that are entered in the game, or by analyzing the results on a year-by-year basis?

Positional basis: is this just looking at the primary declared position of the player, or the position played by the player on a game-by-game basis?

My best guesses: Park effects most likely based on year-by-year actual results. Positional basis most likely a player's primary position during the season. At least, this is how it seems it should be set up...