Gauging Interest: $ League

[phillosopherp]

so I don't know if this is against board policy or not. But I am thinking about starting a pay to play league. If it is against the boards rules then I understand, if not how many would be interested. There will still be byrules/constitution to write and all. And the Money would all be going to a paypal account set aside for just this. Let me know questions, big or small. I used to play in a bunch of these on consoles and would like to play with a better sim software. And of course team pick is first to last I am the Mets. But the leagues are all initial draft so the order is the only thing that matters. To do that I see us rolling dice and the top roll is number one and all that. Lets here it lets play for some greenbacks before they are not worth much.

[ELDoro]

What happens when a crappy GM runs a team into the ground and then quits? No one is gunna want to pay to pick up a crappy team that will take seasons to rebuild.

[kq76]

Originally Posted by phillosopherp

so I don't know if this is against board policy or not. But I am thinkin about starting a pay to play league. If it is against the boards rules then I understand, if not how many would be interested. There will still be a byrule/constitution to write at and all. And the Money would all going a payplay account set aside for just the part. let me know questions,big or small. I just to play in a bunce of these on consoles and you like to play with a real ball making softwear. And of course team pick is first to last I am the Mets. But the leugues are all iniatial draft so the oder is the only thing that matters. To do that I see us roolling rice and the top roll is number one and all that. Lets here it let play for some greenbacks before they are worth much

It's not against the rules as far as I know and if anybody should know, I probably should. If a big problem came about from one of these leagues then I'm sure OOTP would want to think it over, but until then I'm sure you're fine.

It has been talked about numerous times in the past, but I'm not aware of any that got off the ground or at least lasted a good long while. I'm not interested in such leagues myself, so maybe some have lasted, but I doubt it. You could do a search here and try to find out what they did wrong so that you could do it better and have a better chance of surviving. I do know that whenever one is brought up and it looks like the intent is serious, people bring up some questions that are not always easy to answer.

I would recommend that if you do look to start one up that you write the rules pretty clearly. That opening post of yours was a bit difficult to read and if you have a ruleset that reads like that you're not likely to get very far.

[kq76]

Originally Posted by ELDoro

What happens when a crappy GM runs a team into the ground and then quits? No one is gunna want to pay to pick up a crappy team that will take seasons to rebuild.

You could do a graduated scale where at the beginning of the season the worst team (by record or power ranking) only has to pay like 1$ to play and the best team pays like 30$ with all the others falling in-between.

[ELDoro]

I would be interested in joining a such a league possible winnings would be a good excuse for the amount of time i spend on OOTP

[phillosopherp]

Yeah late night post should be something I shy away from. Anyway I would think about doing a deal where the initial start would be a fantasy draft with a random order, generated by something like a dice roll in chat session, so that everyone was able to see what occurred. The fact that people would have money on the line should be enough to keep people from doing crappy and then bailing. If not, then for taking over a team all owners would be able to voice about what they thought the new owners buy in should be, all the way up to free. The key, as has been said, would be to get very good rules down right at the beginning. I personally think that it would be a way to get a good solid league going, where people didn't drop in and out and not pay attention to whats happening.

I might just look into doing this.

[phillosopherp]

So would seriously next to no one be interested in a league like this. I am thinking a 20 buck entry. Everyone who makes playoffs gets something, plus some money to those who have guys that win Cy Young, Batting Champ, ect. I still looking at the payouts and the like, but if no one is interested it is not worth the effort of figuring it all out.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by phillosopherp

So would seriously next to no one be interested in a league like this. I am thinking a 20 buck entry. Everyone who makes playoffs gets something, plus some money to those who have guys that win Cy Young, Batting Champ, ect. I still looking at the payouts and the like, but if no one is interested it is not worth the effort of figuring it all out.

The issue would be one of control. Even now in "free" leagues a commish walks a fine line between his vision and the demands of owners. Imagine the first time you have to rule on a trade or refuse a requested rule change. The owner(s) may demand something due to the fact that they have paid.

Would you refund to any owner who is dissatisfied?

[phillosopherp]

Originally Posted by RchW

The issue would be one of control. Even now in "free" leagues a commish walks a fine line between his vision and the demands of owners. Imagine the first time you have to rule on a trade or refuse a requested rule change. The owner(s) may demand something due to the fact that they have paid.

Would you refund to any owner who is dissatisfied?

this is something that is understandable. The way to make sure those things are handled is before the league starts. With very clear and concise rules, voted on by those that wish to join. Those who find something that they are not happy with can move on before the beginning of the game and the money paid. With paypal being used everyone would have the security of the fact that their money would not be lost since paypal would be semi-secure, and of course I would give my full name and address for another level of security.

I think that with if the league is good with pre-setup would be enough to build a solid league with a good running ability of winning by all. Like I said I have been involved with these type of league with console games that have worked very well, and I feel with a more solid game such as OOTP that the game would be better and much more competitive.

[Nutlaw]

I think that this would definitely be a type of league that would strongly benefit from the commish not playing as GM, for obvious reasons.

[phillosopherp]

I have seen it both ways, and usually it works both ways. The key to this is to make the commish not the end all be all of decisions. The goal would be to have a board of owners very similar to that of MLB. The commish can suggest things but the owners all must vote on it before it happens. I would see myself of course ready to do it either way, as long as I can get enough interest in it happening. Personally I just want to see if work over here in maybe one at most two leagues so that those of us that are ULTRA competitive have some good rewards for our efforts. And lets face it 20 is not much especially when we see 20x32= 640 to be divided by the playoff teams. Not bad in a days work. I would also see this league doing a daily weekday sim but only three days at a time to adjust strategies per team.

As soon as I get about 15 or so that seem like they could consider it I will write up all the beginning bylaws and start voting on things as owners.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by phillosopherp

this is something that is understandable. The way to make sure those things are handled is before the league starts. With very clear and concise rules, voted on by those that wish to join. Those who find something that they are not happy with can move on before the beginning of the game and the money paid. With paypal being used everyone would have the security of the fact that their money would not be lost since paypal would be semi-secure, and of course I would give my full name and address for another level of security.

I think that with if the league is good with pre-setup would be enough to build a solid league with a good running ability of winning by all. Like I said I have been involved with these type of league with console games that have worked very well, and I feel with a more solid game such as OOTP that the game would be better and much more competitive.

Well not to belabor a point, but you can't pre-setup a bad trade that upsets the competitive balance or is a collusion between two owners one of whom is out of the playoffs and the other who is looking to win it all.

I'm not being negative for fun, just trying to be realistic.

[phillosopherp]

Originally Posted by RchW

Well not to belabor a point, but you can't pre-setup a bad trade that upsets the competitive balance or is a collusion between two owners one of whom is out of the playoffs and the other who is looking to win it all.

I'm not being negative for fun, just trying to be realistic.

Yes but you could have a trade commission that includes two owners from each division to rule on trades, or even do what they do over at whatifsports.com which is to allow all to vote and if there are more then ten vetos the trade doesn't occur. Trades are easier to manage then some other things.

[blang13]

Sounds like an intersting, fun concept... but I have to agree, only way I would put money on the line is with an impartial, non-participatory GM... it just cuts out so many problems with one swoop.

[phillosopherp]

yeah I hear yeah. I also would like to see the play agent idea that I saw in another league, where the agent is a non-aligned person that does contract negations in FA periods.

[Mikecouil]

A year or two ago I proposed something similar but it never got off the ground.

I just wanted everyone to pitch in 5.00 each and buy the champ a trophy with the money every year.

More so than the idea of making money, the 5.00 was meant to discourage fly by night GM's who say all the right things and then dissapear 2 weeks into the season. My feeling was that we'd still get a few but at least they paid for our champions trophy before flaking out.

Unfortunately I got FIVE committed people after hyping the thing for weeks. I have been playing SIM baseball in all different formats over 15 years and have a ton of experience but again...next to zero interest.

I'd be willing to consider a pay league with a 20.00 buy in. I have concerns, but I'd certainly be interested.

[Mikecouil]

Originally Posted by phillosopherp

Yes but you could have a trade commission that includes two owners from each division to rule on trades, or even do what they do over at whatifsports.com which is to allow all to vote and if there are more then ten vetos the trade doesn't occur. Trades are easier to manage then some other things.

Trade committees, ESPECIALLY when there is something on the line, are incredibly biased and self serving.

I think you'd be better off posting questionable trades in a public setting, such as another well respected long standing league's forum (with a different set of owners) or even on the OOTP forums.

You can't regulate or legislate stupidity. You are always going to get moron owners, regardless of the cost to get in. THe biggest thing is to make sure there isn't collusion or the trade is so bad as to bury one franchise.

[phillosopherp]

Originally Posted by Mikecouil

Trade committees, ESPECIALLY when there is something on the line, are incredibly biased and self serving.

I think you'd be better off posting questionable trades in a public setting, such as another well respected long standing league's forum (with a different set of owners) or even on the OOTP forums.

You can't regulate or legislate stupidity. You are always going to get moron owners, regardless of the cost to get in. THe biggest thing is to make sure there isn't collusion or the trade is so bad as to bury one franchise.

This is all pretty true. I think that we are having a great discussion on this. I will write up a constitution and see where interest goes from there.