How much does "Range" help your team?

[Ekcut]

I had a slow day at work today and started messing around to see if I can figure out how much range helps a team.
Should you sit your hard hitting shortstop because he doesnt field well? I've often asked myself that question. Go with the glove...or go with the bat??
What I have done is create 10 absoutly IDENTICAL teams( I used an importer to copy the same players (1 pitcher, 1 hitter) several times until I can fill 10 teams). So every pitcher is the same in every regard, and every fielder is identical as well. My pitchers are all 6,5,5,5,5 with 63%gb. My hitters are all 5,5,5,6,5. spray hitters. I then edited the players positions so I have 1 player at each position, with an "E" range everywhere except SS. Then I gave 2 teams A range SS's, 2 teams B range, 2-c, 2-d, and 2 e's.
I made sure all trading, injuries, fatigue, money, coaches were turned off. I made it a replay league so players would not randomly improve/decline with age. I then simmed 8 seasons. Because there are two identical teams with "A" SS's, 2 with "B"'s etc etc it is equivelant to 16 seasons being played. The results are disheartening....

A range=1308-1284 .505%
B range=1335-1257 .515%
C range=1314-1278 .507%
D range=1259-1333 .486%
E range=1267-1325 .488%

As you can see, the teams with the B range SS had the best overall record, C's were 2nd, A's 3rd, E's 4th, D's last.

After 16 seasons, there is only a 76 game differance between the best and worst. That works up to 4.75gms/season

The D's and E's were obviously the worst teams, while the A's, B's and C's were basically interchangable at the top.

So when it comes down to it, it appears in this sample that having an A,B or C SS will win you 4 games per season over a D or E. Is this enough to bench your big bat for a slick fielder with no stick? Nope....Range should be a deciding factor between two near identical hitters, but it shouldnt be a major factor in determining a lineup.

I'm disapointed with the results, I was expecting to see an obvious improvement from one range level to the next but htat just didnt happen. Perhaps with an larger sample over 100 seasons or so, we would see a more pronounced pattern.

I plan on doing simular studies to evaluate the effects of catchers arms, as well as team leadership and clutch attributes. If you have sugestions how to improve the studies, or different topics you are interested in, let me know. Stay tuned....

[EagleEye_0]

I'd love to see a test of putting identical players on each team except have teams with all A's at every position, all B's, all C's, etc. See how many games difference there would be then. Also, dont forget to kame fielding %'s the same.

[Kool A]

I am intrigued by this study. I base a lot of my teams on pitching and defense, and have had nice succuess with this philospohy the past few years. However I think when you get into online league play there are so many attributes that come into play with a season. I would think that there are advantages to having a team that field's the ball well, and does all of the little things well.

I look forward to your studies, thanks for your hard work with this.

Angel Perez

[Aussie Mark]

A similar study, but in more detail, was done and posted in these forums a year or so ago. I'll see if I can dig it up.

[Aussie Mark]

The first thead is the one I was thinking of, but there are others as well .....

Study #2 - Defense vs. Hitting

How much does defense really matter?? An OOTP experiment!

[Todorojoz]

you also have to remember that range and fielding percentage are 2 different things...just cause you can get to the ball doesn't mean you can get it. If you have a bad FP player his range really wont help all that much...he will just have more errors.

[Kool A]

Mark I appreciate you digging that up. I was rather surprised to see the center fielder having only a 4 game difference in the standings. I think it is important to bring in a player that can go get the ball up the middle, and thought the impact of a good defensive center fielder would be as important as the shortstop or the second baseman.

I to put heavy credence on fielding percentage, and always try to put both range and fielding percentage together. Always good to talk philosophy in a open forum.

Angel Perez

[Fungo King]

I would also think that the types fo pitchers you have would play into the results. Do you have a lot of groundball type pitchers...then you will see a bigger difference with highly range infielders and vice vera with fly ball pitchers.

[Ekcut]

If I am not mistaken, I beleive the 1st study was done using OOTP4.
I think for my next study, I am going to place all fielding ratings equal at SS, but vary the bating ratings for the SS's to see the differance 1 player can make to the offense. Then we can compare and see if the amount gained from a good hitter is less or more then the amount gained by a good fielder.
Look for results this afternoon.

[rem]

Originally posted by Ekcut
Everyday I break my own personal record for consecutive days without dying.

Best Sig Ever

[marc]

Very interesting. I also would like to see more research done in this area of the game.

[PrestonKaye]

yes, a very cool idea indeed

[Ekcut]

Hmmm, I thought I had posted this study yesturday, but it hasnt appeared. I hope I didnt post it to the wrong forum yesturday, in which case there could be some very confused people in alt.binaries.multimedia.erotca.donkeyporn wondering what the heck "range a" is...anyways, for once I actually saved to a doc file so I shall just cut&paste......

This time all pitchers are identical, all hitters other than shortstops are identicle. All shortstops have identicle fielding&baserunning with the hitting edited as follows;

Avg 2b 3b Hr BB K
TeamA-.330 35 13 30 120 70 =7,6,13,8,10,6
TeamB-.290 30 10 25 100 90 =6,5,10,6,8,5
TeamC-.270 25 7 20 80 110 =5,4,7,5,7,4
TeamD-.250 20 4 15 60 130 =4,4,4,4,5,3
TeamE-.230 15 1 10 40 150 =3,3,1,3,3,2

This time I will sim 18 seasons, discarding the highest and lowest win total from each team. This may elimanate 1 fluke season from effecting the results.
The results of the 16 seasons used are...

TeamA 1366-1226 .527% GB GB/Season
TeamC 1310-1282 .505% 56 3.5
TeamB 1297-1295 .500% 69 4.3
TeamD 1253-1339 .483% 111 6.9
TeamE 1246-1346 .480% 120 7.5

I avoided doing this study with a superstar SS. There isnt much doubt whether or not you would play a man with A Rod type ratings. There is more of a patern with the hitting numbers as opposed to the Range numbers, but it still isnt significant. You may have noticed that team C was more successful than team B. But for the most part the teams finnished in predicatable fashion.

My next study will be to add defense to these shortstops. The Team A SS's will be given E range, while the team E SS's will be given A range.
If the paterns continue I think we will see the TeamE cut the GB to under 3 games. With all teams very close together.

[Carlton]

Not to be a jerk, but next time questions like these should be put in the Feedback Forum.

You'd find you'd get a lot of our Sabermatric guys posting and helping

[Ekcut]

This time I have combined defensive ratings and batting ratings.
I gave the worst hitters, the best defense and viseversa to see if I can close the gap in games back.

Again, all NON shortstops are absolutly identicle. The SS's have been edited as follows.

Avg 2b 3b Hr BB K
TeamA-.330 35 13 30 120 70 =7,6,13,8,10,6 E range
TeamB-.290 30 10 25 100 90 =6,5,10,6,8,5 D Range
TeamC-.270 25 7 20 80 110 =5,4,7,5,7,4 C Range
TeamD-.250 20 4 15 60 130 =4,4,4,4,5,3 B Range
TeamE-.230 15 1 10 40 150 =3,3,1,3,3,2 A Range

Again, I have run 18 seasons, discarding the best and worst season from each team and the 16 used seasons give us the following result....

TeamA 1337-1255 .519% GB GB/Season
TeamC 1323-1269 .510% 14 .9
TeamB 1300-1292 .502% 37 2.3
TeamD 1293-1299 .499% 44 2.7
TeamE 1232-1360 .475% 105 6.6

As you can see, again TeamC beat TeamB. This time TeamE was totally out to lunch. They actually LOST more games with their A SS then they did in the previous study with there E SS. Goes to show just how much PURE LUCK is involved with the sim (and with real baseball for that matter)

I am surprised at just how little influance a single player has on a team. (It's true, there is no "I" in "team")
A .330 hitter with 30hrs and poor range will only win you at most 3 games per season over a .250 hitter with 15hrs and B Range. Meanwhile the .250 hitter is probably costing you $6mil less....tough decsions...

The next study will be on pitchers velocity...Does it actually make a differance?