When is plagiarism just too much?

[SWardle]

This is in response to Neal Musser who opened GBPA, a players league. Now, SEBL didn't corner the market on players leagues because I was in GFBL for a short spell before the SEBL came around. However, the SEBL did have a fully original written FAQ and CBA. Now, the GBPA comes right in and steals them word for word, rule for rule. I'll provide proof in just a minute.

Musser was in the SEBL for a short spell, he cried. He moaned. He left the league when people didn't exactly take kindly to his personal attacks on them. Documented on the SEBL forums. So, he was booted. Once he left, all he could do is badmouth the SEBL. About how bad it sucked. All of us, and I mean, every guy in the league, just ignored it. We're above getting drawn into petty flame wars. But plagiarism is where we now draw the line.

So, what does Musser do when he leaves a league he detests? He steals everything about it. _Everything_.

Now, people have asked him to change his stuff. We don't want him to close down his league and we don't even want to prevent him from running a league. More power to him. But running a league and stealing someone's hard work and effort is some flat out bull. So, since he won't change his stuff? We'll just show the public what kind of guy he really is. Here is the GBPA FAQ.

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GBPA FAQ

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League Overview:
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The GBPA is a OOTP6 league. The GBPA is a player’s league. The GBPA is ran by Steve Thiele. We are going to try our hardest to make the GBPA the ultimate player’s league.

In this league:
-> You can be a player
-> You can be an agent
-> You can be a GM
-> You can be an Owner

I will describe the above stated roles in the following paragraph. You can only run One Player in the GBPA. You can only run One Team in the GBPA. You can only run One Agency in the GBPA. Any members who are found cheating, will fired from the GBPA, with no discussion whatsoever. We are not going to tolerate cheating in the GBPA. That also means that we will not tolerate tanking in the GBPA.

I am going to run a player in this league, but I am not going to run a team. Initially, this league will have no owners for the team’s. The main reason for that is that I do not want to own every team, and that it will take a few years for a player(s) to be able to afford the team.
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Teams:
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1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
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Roles:
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PLAYER:
As a player, you will complete all of the task’s that a real MLB player would do. You will go through off-season workouts, you will go through spring training, and you will go through contract negotiations. How much you do is entirely up to you, but of course, activity is encouraged.
AGENT:
You do not have to be a Agent. It is totally a optional role. Any player can be a Agent at any time, as long as he is not a Owner or a GM. As a Agent, you will take on clients, and you will negotiate contracts for your clients. If you work hard for your client, then you will attract more clients. If you do not work hard for your client, then you will not attract more clients. To find out more information about running a Agency, please log onto the message board.
PLAYER REP:
The Player Rep is a player in this league, who is NOT a GM, a Agent, or a Owner. The job of the Player Rep will be to fight for the player’s rights. The Player’s Rep will take the player’s wants/needs to the league officials, and try to convince them to accept the proposal. The Player Rep should be a senior player, who has people skills.
GM:
The GM will be running the entire show. He will make the trades, sign the free agents, and complete the lineups. The GM will have to listen to the Owner, and do what he say’s. If he can not do that, then the GM could get fired. A GM can control every aspect of the team, except for the selling of the team to a new Owner.
OWNER:
The Owner has the ultimate control over the franchise. He can tell the GM what to do(ie: go after a certain player/trade, set a team budget, etc.). To buy a team, the Owner must be able to pay the team’s payroll, plus at least 10 million. The Owner’s bank account will grow, as long as the team is turning a profit. If the team does not turn a profit, then he will have to sell his team. If he can not sell the team, then he will have to declare for bankruptcy. If you declare for bankruptcy, then you will lose every single penny that you started off with.
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CBA [Collective Bargaining Agreement]:
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Rookie Signing Clause- All rookies can not sign a contract that goes past 3 years, and goes past 9 million dollars in total salary. A rookie must wait 24 hours before he can sign with a team.
- 5-3 Rule.
- Any player with 3 years of service is a veteran and has the right to demand another trade prior to the start of the season if he/she is traded in the middle of a multi-year contract.
If the player is not traded, he or she becomes an unrestricted free agent.
A player with at least 5 years of service, the last 3 of which were with one team has an automatic no trade clause. As always, it is up to the player to exercise the NTC within 72 hours of the deal announcement.
-All contracts must be signed and agreed to upon by all parties.
-No player, agent, manager or GM can be compensated without a written
contract and thus, may not perform their duties.
-While under contract, no player can talk to any other team about contract numbers or future deals. All that can be done is the player [or his agent] approach the other team and ask if a trade for them[their client] would be possible. No talks of numbers etc... to do so could lead to fines and lawsuits on both the player and agent for tampering.
-No GM can disclose the amount of any offered contract. To do so could put a ceiling on negotiations for the player and is considered tampering.
-All violations of the CBA must be reported promptly to the commissioners office.
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General League Rules:
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-There will not be a minor league system
-There will not be a waiver system
-There will be a salary cap set at $90,000,000
-The minimum salary is 300k
-All teams will start with the same financial set-up
-Signings bonuses are NOT allowed
-If a GM or a Owner wants to sign his own player onto his own team, then he must negotiate the contract through a Agent, or he can negotiate a contract through the AI,
-Teams will not be permitted to carry more then 25 players on their roster
-All league related information must be posted on the message board. The message board will be the primary source for running this league.
-To become a GM in this league, you MUST own a copy of OOTP6. Players, Agents, and Owners are not required to own the game, but it would be helpful.

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Notice there are no managerial spots in this league. It will come in handy later. Now, here is the SEBL FAQ to compare. Formatting, wording and entire blocks of it atre just blatantly stolen.

http://avwfbbl1.ho8.com/SEBL/SEBL.txt

Now we move on to the CBA.
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GBPA CBA


- 5-3 Rule.
- Any player with 3 years of service is a veteran and has the right to demand another trade prior to the start of the season if he/she is traded in the middle of a multi-year contract.
If the player is not traded, he or she becomes an unrestricted free agent.
A player with at least 5 years of service, the last 3 of which were with one team has an automatic no trade clause. As always, it is up to the player to exercise the NTC within 72 hours of the deal announcement.
-All contracts must be signed and agreed to upon by all parties.
-No player, agent, manager or GM can be compensated without a written
contract and thus, may not perform their duties.
-While under contract, no player can talk to any other team about contract numbers or future deals. All that can be done is the player [or his agent] approach the other team and ask if a trade for them[their client] would be possible. No talks of numbers etc... to do so could lead to fines and lawsuits on both the player and agent for tampering.
-No GM can disclose the amount of any offered contract. To do so could put a ceiling on negotiations for the player and is considered tampering.
-All violations of the CBA must be reported promptly to the commissioners office.
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Notice this portion specifically.

>>>-No player, agent, manager or GM can be compensated without a written
contract and thus, may not perform their duties.<<<

Managers? Wait a minute, they don't have them do they? So, not only does he steal the format and the wording. But he is too lazy to even edit it up correctly. My, my, my.

Now, the SEBL CBA.

http://jahzase.proboards15.com/index...num=1087836455

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What can someone do about this? Nothing? If his webhost is notified that he's using stolen material would they do anything? ISP? I mean, come on, all we ask is this guy get off his lazy hump and write his own ticket. Not steal our's. I don't know any venue, even a hobby like this, where plagiarism is welcome.

Certainly people can't condone this.

Steve-O

[Miracle]

Thats bull*** man, I got my name stolen, not as big of a thing as yours, but still got me mad.

[rem]

The ABL claims exclusive ownership of the ABL acronym regardless of whether or not the league in question came into existence before or after the ABL. Thank you, have a nice day.

P.S. You can't copy rules word for word although I didn't read enough to see if he copied word for word or just borrowed the theories. In the case of the later, your expected to receive permission and give credit.

[clutch]

Let us get a few things straight about copy right laws...

I found this thread on the same issues.

[clutch]

Ping: TMBU Commish

This one too. But they all seemed locked.

[canadiancreed]

Yeesh were we bored today?

[jnshmoo]

Originally Posted by clutch

Ping: TMBU Commish

This one too. But they all seemed locked.

Probably because they all devolve into pointless flamewars. Some people just don't get it. They "create" something, then find something that someone else created and incorporate it into their own creation. They don't ask the creator for permission and they don't care. They don't give credit where it is due and give the impression that they were responsible for the whole of it.

It's a sad shame that this has to happen, but some people just don't get it.

Eventually, people will catch on and the offenders will lose standing in the community.

[SWardle]

Originally Posted by jnshmoo

Probably because they all devolve into pointless flamewars. Some people just don't get it. They "create" something, then find something that someone else created and incorporate it into their own creation. They don't ask the creator for permission and they don't care. They don't give credit where it is due and give the impression that they were responsible for the whole of it.

It's a sad shame that this has to happen, but some people just don't get it.

Eventually, people will catch on and the offenders will lose standing in the community.

Well, if all he did was use ideas from the league then no harm, no foul. I mean, there's only so much you can do with a league you know? So, the ideas being lifted are not the problem here.

It's the fact they took the FAQ and CBA word for word now, and just changed SEBL to GBPA. I mean, they didn't change anything about it. They even left the managerial rules in the things when his league doesn't even use managers.

Taking the ideas is one thing and we can live with that. But having your work stolen is another. I don't think anyone would be kosher with that.

Steve-O

[And1pg2]

I agree where you are comming from, but I defentily don't agree with your childish antics on the message boards there.

[Steve T]

Okay guys, here is my response to this:

I agree, I did take a lot of things from your league, and used them as a guideline. Should I have asked for permission? Yes. But, I did not, and I am truely sorry for that.

But, my beef with you is that you should have contacted me privately about this, and I would of gladly re-written everything. On my message board, you say that you did in fact privately contact me, and have been trying to do so for 2 months? Would you please tell me how this was done? I never received a e-mail from you, and I never received a IM from you on ANY instant messaging service.

What I will tell you is that I will remove the rules, and re-write the entire section of them. I will also re-write the CBA, and put it into my own words.

Like I said, I am sorry for any trouble I might have caused, and I will take care of it right away.

**The rules may be up there for a little longer. I am going to re-write them, and thens ee if my new webmaster can take care of everything else.**

[PineTar]

Thieves deserve public ass-ramming 100% of the time. You can't steal someone's tv and then bitch about not discussing things before getting hit in the head by a baseball bat by the owner.

[Steve T]

Pinetar, like I already said, I am sorry about what I did, and regret it. I am going to take care of the problem as soon as I can, and everyone can move on.

But, I would appreciate it very much if BigHort would stop posting in my shoutbox, as he is just going to keep things running. I do not want a big fued between the SEBL and the GBPA. Both are seperate leagues, and we should go our own ways.

[And1pg2]

Our 9 best vs their 9 best! Winner takes all, Plus pitchers J/K

[avwjase]

For my intial, gutshot response:
http://jahzase.proboards15.com/index...num=1093141941

Now, a more detailed response:
I am the author of the SEBL FAQ and part of the CBA. Tim wrote the majority of the CBA. My members have been after me for awhile to make a deal out of this and expose Neal -- but, despite him no longer being in the league and taking unjust shots at me for not being "super commish" while he was here, I didn't. I also don't plan to.

Truth be told, I don't care. I've told my members that and I stand by it. Between a job, bills and a wife... this is just a hobby and it's all fun. I don't harp on the negatives and I don't plan to start. If he liked my FAQ and such so much he is welcome to use it. So is everyone else out there.

I just want to have fun at something I enjoy... with the limited time I have to enjoy it with. Spending time arguing over ethics and who's wrong and who's right doesn't appeal to me. If Neal says he's going to change things, fine. If he doesn't want/plan to, also fine.

Thing will be what they will be. I can understand why some members would be sore about things... after the way Neal left and badmouthed all of us. But, the author of the material and the only guy with a real beef to be mad, isn't.

Good luck to Neal and to his league. All I have to say.

Jase

[Steve T]

I appreciate your words, Jase. I do plan on changing them, just to make your other league members happy.

Good Luck to you, and the SEBL!

[Jestre]

Why should anyone care if someone copies stuff... this is for fun, there is no money involved. The MLBC is one of the oldest league historical leagues in existence and more than one future commish went thru our league and 'borrowed' things. I thought it was flattering and didnt mind at all. I think of the OOTP 'community' as a shareware type of place. Many people have done a lot of work to add valuable utilities for all to use as they wish. I look at league website stuff pretty much the same way... Does it diminish the enjoyment you get from your league if someone else uses stuff???

[Carlton]

^^^
Well said, but you forget...this is OOTP, home of the Off Topic forum, where there are jokes and chuckles galore until a serious issue arises and then chaos...and more bitching then a Roseanne Barr room service call.

I remember a league used my 1901 roster set...and asked if he could use it....I thought that was odd. I told him I put it out there to use, because I spent time gettting this and that for my own selfish needs...and thought someone else might like it. No biggie

[Rick James]

Originally Posted by SWardle

All of us, and I mean, every guy in the league, just ignored it. We're above getting drawn into petty flame wars.

HAHAHAHAHAHA

[Espeizer]

I'll tell you when plagarism is too much.

When people like you take ootp too seriously and make a HUGE deal out of this.

[dbacks]