Trade Ethics

UncleBuc · 12-26-2004, 12:08 PM

I posted a trade block requesting a "x" round draft pick and recieved an email from a GM saying they would give me that and to post in the proper league forum. I sent an email response agreeing to the trade and posted it at the league forum.

Later in the day I recieved another email from a different GM saying they would send me their "x" round draft pick. I replied saying a deal had already been reached and posted but not confirmed by the second party.

I recieved another email from the third party involved upping the offer but I declined saying I didn't feel it was in good ethics to go back on an email agreeing to an original offer even though it hadn't been confirmed via the league forums.

My question is do you think I had a right to email the first GM saying, "I've recieved a better offer and since our original deal hasn't been confirmed via the league forums I'd like to either give you the chance to match it or take the other deal."

I didn't and the original deal has since been confirmed but I'll be disappointed if he turns around and trades it to the third GM for the better deal.

I'd like to know what others think regarding this situation. Thanks.

BCStone57 · 12-26-2004, 12:18 PM

In my opinion, you did the right thing. To me, once a deal is verbally agreed on, it's as good as it being in writing. If I were the party who you agreed to make that deal with and you posted and then backed out, that would be the last time I would ever deal with you again. Just my opinion !!!!!!

canadiancreed · 12-26-2004, 12:34 PM

Same here. I"ve been on the receivign end of trades that they had confirmed, but then went with another offer, and that's defaitnely a pisser.

Kaline · 12-26-2004, 12:36 PM

You did the right thing. The only way you can back out of a verbal in that situation is if the guy goes two days or so without confirming it, then you could realistically make a case that you thought he was backing out.

RBLwebguy · 12-26-2004, 03:41 PM

Yep a verbal agreement in my books is as good as gold. My suggestion to GM's shopping players is to weigh all offers before agreeing to anything. Sometimes the 1st offer is not always the best. A simple, thanks for your offer, let me mull it over would be sufficient for a day or two. I am definetly not a fan of any GM's getting cold feet after agreement and at least one party has posted.

We are not bound by anything, but I believe in sim circles most of us feel the same way.

Cowboys3356 · 12-26-2004, 03:53 PM

Well if we looking for a "real world" example all we need to do is take a look at the recent purposed 3 way trade involving Randy Johnson. The LA Dodgers pulled out even though the deal was "verbally" agreed too. It is kind of sad when the ethics in an online baseball league are better than those in the real world. Perhaps the Dodgers could learn a lesson from OOTP and about keeping your word.

Glad to see such good ethics from people in the OOTP community.

Jeremy Weimer · 12-26-2004, 04:05 PM

You did the right thing.

UncleBuc · 12-26-2004, 04:14 PM

Thanks guys. I was afraid maybe I was being too soft. But they say to trust your first instincts and although I hated to turn down the better deal I didn't feel it was right. Nine months into online play and I'm still learning.

Cooleyvol · 12-26-2004, 04:30 PM

While I would have done exactly what you did, Buc...........in most leagues, a trade isn't official until posted by both owners.

rem · 12-26-2004, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UncleBuc

My question is do you think I had a right to email the first GM saying, "I've recieved a better offer and since our original deal hasn't been confirmed via the league forums I'd like to either give you the chance to match it or take the other deal."

Nope.

disposableheros · 12-27-2004, 03:08 PM

ive had a couple owners back out of deals after reaching agreement on AIM and posting it to the forums (they didnt confirm on the forums, but got back to me days later on AIM saying "nevermind"). they have both found their way to my AIM **** list and will never ever get me to agree to anything less than a raping of their major and minor leagues (if i read their emails/messages at all).

you did the right thing in my book

Dwolfson20 · 12-28-2004, 08:33 AM

You definitely did the right thing, although I completely disagree with the guy who compared this to what the Dodgers did.

jnshmoo · 12-28-2004, 09:47 AM

I agree with those saying that you did the right thing. I'd also like to point out that since you had actually already posted your "signature" on the forums, that you would have looked bad for pulling out rather than the other guy.

While I think that a verbal agreement should be honored, the fact that you already put it "in writing" would have made things much worse. I'd also be much more upset if I were involved in a trade with someone who backed out after posting it in the forum than if he pulled out after a verbal agreement.

IatricSB · 12-28-2004, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowboys3356

Well if we looking for a "real world" example all we need to do is take a look at the recent purposed 3 way trade involving Randy Johnson.

So what is a "purposed 3 way trade"?

Cowboys3356 · 12-29-2004, 10:01 AM

I believe the 3 way trade involved Randy Johnson to the Yankees of course, then Shawn Green & another Dodger to the D-Backs, and finally the Dodgers got some prospects from the Yankees. Was a real bad deal for the Dodgers and I am sure that is why they called it off.

andymac · 12-29-2004, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowboys3356

Well if we looking for a "real world" example all we need to do is take a look at the recent purposed 3 way trade involving Randy Johnson. The LA Dodgers pulled out even though the deal was "verbally" agreed too. It is kind of sad when the ethics in an online baseball league are better than those in the real world. Perhaps the Dodgers could learn a lesson from OOTP and about keeping your word.

Glad to see such good ethics from people in the OOTP community.

There is a little more at stake in the "real world" though. I don't know what happened inside the Dodger offices, but if in the end they don't feel like it was in the best interests of the club then they shouldn't do it.

jened · 12-29-2004, 08:27 PM

you did the right thing. dodgers may have _verbally_ agreed in principle but you had a firm deal worked out and agreed in writing (email). if dodgers agreed in writing and then did something like not submit paperwork on time to back out or some other technicality, it might be a more fair comparison. i do think it's worth comparing though and we all have different opinions on it. you did the right thing and bravo!

Cowboys3356 · 12-30-2004, 12:14 AM

Yes in the real world a deal ike that gets you fired so I can see why the Dodger GM backed out! You have to feed your family first!

12-26-2004, 12:08 PM	#1 (permalink)
UncleBuc Minors (Single A) Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 77 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 posts	Trade Ethics I posted a trade block requesting a "x" round draft pick and recieved an email from a GM saying they would give me that and to post in the proper league forum. I sent an email response agreeing to the trade and posted it at the league forum. Later in the day I recieved another email from a different GM saying they would send me their "x" round draft pick. I replied saying a deal had already been reached and posted but not confirmed by the second party. I recieved another email from the third party involved upping the offer but I declined saying I didn't feel it was in good ethics to go back on an email agreeing to an original offer even though it hadn't been confirmed via the league forums. My question is do you think I had a right to email the first GM saying, "I've recieved a better offer and since our original deal hasn't been confirmed via the league forums I'd like to either give you the chance to match it or take the other deal." I didn't and the original deal has since been confirmed but I'll be disappointed if he turns around and trades it to the third GM for the better deal. I'd like to know what others think regarding this situation. Thanks. __________________ Un-retired Last edited by UncleBuc; 12-26-2004 at 12:10 PM.

12-26-2004, 12:34 PM	#3 (permalink)
canadiancreed Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 11,025 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 463 Thanked 116x in 85 posts	Same here. I"ve been on the receivign end of trades that they had confirmed, but then went with another offer, and that's defaitnely a pisser. __________________ Once upon a time I stated if I ever got a warning it was time to go. It looks like that day has finally come.

12-26-2004, 04:14 PM	#8 (permalink)
UncleBuc Minors (Single A) Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 77 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 posts	Thanks guys. I was afraid maybe I was being too soft. But they say to trust your first instincts and although I hated to turn down the better deal I didn't feel it was right. Nine months into online play and I'm still learning. __________________ Un-retired

12-26-2004, 04:30 PM	#9 (permalink)
Cooleyvol Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Woodland Mills, TN Posts: 5,993 Thanks: 57 Thanked 506x in 304 posts	While I would have done exactly what you did, Buc...........in most leagues, a trade isn't official until posted by both owners. __________________

12-27-2004, 03:08 PM	#11 (permalink)
disposableheros Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 4,332 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 posts	ive had a couple owners back out of deals after reaching agreement on AIM and posting it to the forums (they didnt confirm on the forums, but got back to me days later on AIM saying "nevermind"). they have both found their way to my AIM ** list and will never ever get me to agree to anything less than a raping of their major and minor leagues (if i read their emails/messages at all). you did the right thing in my book __________________ 2 Wild Cards, 11 Division Champs, 4 League Champs, 3 World Champs, and 3 Best GM awards Baseball Maelstrom - New York Mets - 180-149 .547 Corporate League Baseball - Coke Buzz - 889-649 .578 Western Hemisphere Baseball League - Santiago Saints - 672-793 .459 Record - 2428-2271 .517**

12-26-2004, 12:18 PM	#2 (permalink)
BCStone57 Minors (Double A) Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 129 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 posts	In my opinion, you did the right thing. To me, once a deal is verbally agreed on, it's as good as it being in writing. If I were the party who you agreed to make that deal with and you posted and then backed out, that would be the last time I would ever deal with you again. Just my opinion !!!!!!

12-26-2004, 12:36 PM	#4 (permalink)
Kaline Major Leagues Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 321 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 posts	You did the right thing. The only way you can back out of a verbal in that situation is if the guy goes two days or so without confirming it, then you could realistically make a case that you thought he was backing out.

12-26-2004, 03:41 PM	#5 (permalink)
RBLwebguy Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Canuckistan Posts: 4,283 Thanks: 35 Thanked 64x in 37 posts	Yep a verbal agreement in my books is as good as gold. My suggestion to GM's shopping players is to weigh all offers before agreeing to anything. Sometimes the 1st offer is not always the best. A simple, thanks for your offer, let me mull it over would be sufficient for a day or two. I am definetly not a fan of any GM's getting cold feet after agreement and at least one party has posted. We are not bound by anything, but I believe in sim circles most of us feel the same way.

12-26-2004, 03:53 PM	#6 (permalink)
Cowboys3356 All Star Starter Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,382 Thanks: 8 Thanked 5x in 5 posts	Well if we looking for a "real world" example all we need to do is take a look at the recent purposed 3 way trade involving Randy Johnson. The LA Dodgers pulled out even though the deal was "verbally" agreed too. It is kind of sad when the ethics in an online baseball league are better than those in the real world. Perhaps the Dodgers could learn a lesson from OOTP and about keeping your word. Glad to see such good ethics from people in the OOTP community.

12-26-2004, 04:05 PM	#7 (permalink)
Jeremy Weimer Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Mounds View, MN Posts: 3,376 Thanks: 2 Thanked 4x in 2 posts	You did the right thing.

12-28-2004, 08:33 AM	#12 (permalink)
Dwolfson20 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Not St. Louis Posts: 2,872 Thanks: 8 Thanked 1x in 1 post	You definitely did the right thing, although I completely disagree with the guy who compared this to what the Dodgers did. __________________

12-28-2004, 09:47 AM	#13 (permalink)
jnshmoo All Star Starter Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Not Here Posts: 1,226 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 posts	I agree with those saying that you did the right thing. I'd also like to point out that since you had actually already posted your "signature" on the forums, that you would have looked bad for pulling out rather than the other guy. While I think that a verbal agreement should be honored, the fact that you already put it "in writing" would have made things much worse. I'd also be much more upset if I were involved in a trade with someone who backed out after posting it in the forum than if he pulled out after a verbal agreement. __________________ Beer Snob and Baseball Sim Geek

12-29-2004, 10:01 AM	#15 (permalink)
Cowboys3356 All Star Starter Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,382 Thanks: 8 Thanked 5x in 5 posts	I believe the 3 way trade involved Randy Johnson to the Yankees of course, then Shawn Green & another Dodger to the D-Backs, and finally the Dodgers got some prospects from the Yankees. Was a real bad deal for the Dodgers and I am sure that is why they called it off.

12-29-2004, 08:27 PM	#17 (permalink)
jened Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: upstate NY (saratoga county) Posts: 255 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 posts	you did the right thing. dodgers may have _verbally_ agreed in principle but you had a firm deal worked out and agreed in writing (email). if dodgers agreed in writing and then did something like not submit paperwork on time to back out or some other technicality, it might be a more fair comparison. i do think it's worth comparing though and we all have different opinions on it. you did the right thing and bravo! __________________ cooper_gd's OTWE Results OTWE HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION: KING JENED III

12-30-2004, 12:14 AM	#18 (permalink)
Cowboys3356 All Star Starter Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,382 Thanks: 8 Thanked 5x in 5 posts	Yes in the real world a deal ike that gets you fired so I can see why the Dodger GM backed out! You have to feed your family first!

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