Completely Customizable League

molarmite · 10-20-2005, 08:14 PM

What do you think of a CCL where you can choose how many outs are in an inning, how many innings in a game. Basically rewriting the rules of baseball but with the same general concept of the game.

gmo · 10-20-2005, 09:06 PM

I think this would be extremely difficult to do at all, much less well. I would figure that it would be, but perhaps it is not that difficult in coding to rather than have 3 everywhere for outs in an inning and 9 everywhere for innings in a game to have variables that must be input by the user. Changing the roster size from always 25 to user-specifiable with V6 has been a somewhat buggy experience I have gathered from seeing what those trying to use something other than the default 25 have posted here.

Even if you have the game set to handle completely different rules structurally, then the AI needs to be taught to deal with those things as well. Computer managers would need logic on how to handle 7-inning games, 10-inning games, 2-out innings, allowing substituted players to return to the game, and whatever else could be altered like that. The combination of effort required to make the game that flexible and the likely limited demand for baseball so structurally different makes such complete customization highly unlikely I would assume, though it is a somewhat intriguing idea.

kq76 · 10-20-2005, 09:57 PM

I love the idea and have often dreamt of it. I've wondered, "how would the game be different if...". The game might be great, but it just could be even better. What would baseball be like if the pitching mound was further or closer to home plate? What if the distance between the bases was more or less than it is now? What if there were 4 outs in an inning? What if only 3 balls were needed for a walk? Some might say all those things are blasphemous, but restricting yourself to how things have been done for what might seem like forever is not always best. Similarly, I imagine NFL fans who haven't seen a CFL game would say the same about the NFL adopting CFL rules, but I also imagine a lot of CFL fans would swear you'd probably have a hell of a more entertaining game.

gmo is right. It would be awfully difficult to balance the game to take everything into consideration, but that can be said for nearly everything you can customize. You do the best you can with the standard setup. But, if you leave as many things as possible customizeable by the user then they'll be able to balance most things themselves. For example, looking at the logic of when to bring in a particular pitcher, it would probably be best to let the user determine that by inputting what inning and what score differential it needs to be to bring in a certain pitcher like we see at: http://www.olmec.org/baseball/gameplaydetails.jsp?id=10 Otherwise, you're limiting yourself and you're either going to have to cater those people who want to see a lot of saves by a closer or those more sabermetric people who want the best pitchers in at the most critical points in the game, which are not necessarily just save situations.

Steve Kuffrey · 10-20-2005, 10:09 PM

I just don't see this even being a consideration, it is an idea.

QuestGAV · 10-20-2005, 11:22 PM

I think having the number of innings be a variable would be feasible and natural, given that it is one thing that gets varied between leagues. Outs/strikes/balls/etc seems like a much bigger undertaking with a much smaller payoff. But like any other feature request you have to weigh the amount of time it would take to design/code/debug vs other options for that time.

swampdragon · 10-21-2005, 12:06 AM

Minor leagues frequently have 7 inning doubleheaders. Don't know if that'll be in the game or not, but I would guess not because of the problems gmo listed.

Le Grande Orange · 10-21-2005, 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swampdragon

Minor leagues frequently have 7 inning doubleheaders. Don't know if that'll be in the game or not, but I would guess not because of the problems gmo listed.

That's a great point about the shortened second games of doubleheaders - that was quite common in the minors.

For a simple change like that I don't see it being a problem in terms of the in-game AI management: just advance the AI decision-making routines by two innings. Since the 7th inning in such shortened games is the equivalent of the 9th innning in a regular game, advancing the decision-making timings fits in perfectly.

theasfl · 10-21-2005, 04:23 AM

good idea, I often wish other sports games were like this, but it aint gonna happen.

Jonzard · 10-21-2005, 06:03 AM

Cool idea, but I think the AI would be hard to manage.

molarmite · 10-21-2005, 04:34 PM

Well then maybe don't put it in ootp, but make a whole new game out of it so you can concentrate on AI instead off all the other features.

Davey Eckstein · 10-21-2005, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molarmite

Well then maybe don't put it in ootp, but make a whole new game out of it so you can concentrate on AI instead off all the other features.

Well number one, that isn't the purpose of this forum. And number two, Markus isn't going to be making that game anytime soon.

molarmite · 10-21-2005, 07:11 PM

I know that's the purpose of the forum, I suggested in for ootp and when that was shot down there was no better place to put that idea for another game than here.

10-20-2005, 08:14 PM	#1 (permalink)
molarmite Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,879	Completely Customizable League What do you think of a CCL where you can choose how many outs are in an inning, how many innings in a game. Basically rewriting the rules of baseball but with the same general concept of the game.

10-20-2005, 09:57 PM	#3 (permalink)
kq76 Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 5,438	I love the idea and have often dreamt of it. I've wondered, "how would the game be different if...". The game might be great, but it just could be even better. What would baseball be like if the pitching mound was further or closer to home plate? What if the distance between the bases was more or less than it is now? What if there were 4 outs in an inning? What if only 3 balls were needed for a walk? Some might say all those things are blasphemous, but restricting yourself to how things have been done for what might seem like forever is not always best. Similarly, I imagine NFL fans who haven't seen a CFL game would say the same about the NFL adopting CFL rules, but I also imagine a lot of CFL fans would swear you'd probably have a hell of a more entertaining game. gmo is right. It would be awfully difficult to balance the game to take everything into consideration, but that can be said for nearly everything you can customize. You do the best you can with the standard setup. But, if you leave as many things as possible customizeable by the user then they'll be able to balance most things themselves. For example, looking at the logic of when to bring in a particular pitcher, it would probably be best to let the user determine that by inputting what inning and what score differential it needs to be to bring in a certain pitcher like we see at: http://www.olmec.org/baseball/gameplaydetails.jsp?id=10 Otherwise, you're limiting yourself and you're either going to have to cater those people who want to see a lot of saves by a closer or those more sabermetric people who want the best pitchers in at the most critical points in the game, which are not necessarily just save situations. __________________ Online League Boards Moderator The avatar is of Pink. People like to tease me for being a fan of hers, but I'm cool with it. Interactive Online League Directory - find or advertise a league today! (now OOTP9 compatible, thanks for the space jazzrack!) Canadian Baseball League - a recent OOTP9 convert, but running steadily since April 2002 SGCBL - a Lord of the Rings themed league with a very friendly membership and a commish constantly looking to improve the smallest of things Last edited by kq76 : 10-20-2005 at 10:01 PM.

10-20-2005, 10:09 PM	#4 (permalink)
Steve Kuffrey Administrator Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: S.E. TN - Georgia born and raised Posts: 16,908	I just don't see this even being a consideration, it is an idea. __________________ Steve Kuffrey DABS Atlanta Braves - 2008 Eastern Division Champ DBLC Atlanta Braves - 2011, 2014 East Division Champ, 2012, 2013 NL Wildcard Baseball Maelstrom-Montreal Expos-2013 Tourney winner, 2014 WC Team Sparky's League - Tampa Bay D'Rays No longer an active league.

10-21-2005, 04:23 AM	#8 (permalink)
theasfl Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Coral Springs, FL or Orlando, FL (UCF) Posts: 7,814	good idea, I often wish other sports games were like this, but it aint gonna happen. __________________ All-Sports Fantasy League The ASFL 21 different games, 8 sports. Now trying to fill up our Fantasy Football leagues. Please check out the website (www.theasfl.com/asfl2/). The league is free- if you're interested please fill out the signup form and/or email the commissioner. Miami Talons (ABL): 2004, 2005 & 2008 Champs

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10-20-2005, 09:06 PM	#2 (permalink)
gmo Hall Of Famer Join Date: May 2002 Location: Grand Forks, ND Posts: 2,394	I think this would be extremely difficult to do at all, much less well. I would figure that it would be, but perhaps it is not that difficult in coding to rather than have 3 everywhere for outs in an inning and 9 everywhere for innings in a game to have variables that must be input by the user. Changing the roster size from always 25 to user-specifiable with V6 has been a somewhat buggy experience I have gathered from seeing what those trying to use something other than the default 25 have posted here. Even if you have the game set to handle completely different rules structurally, then the AI needs to be taught to deal with those things as well. Computer managers would need logic on how to handle 7-inning games, 10-inning games, 2-out innings, allowing substituted players to return to the game, and whatever else could be altered like that. The combination of effort required to make the game that flexible and the likely limited demand for baseball so structurally different makes such complete customization highly unlikely I would assume, though it is a somewhat intriguing idea.

10-20-2005, 11:22 PM	#5 (permalink)
QuestGAV Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,008	I think having the number of innings be a variable would be feasible and natural, given that it is one thing that gets varied between leagues. Outs/strikes/balls/etc seems like a much bigger undertaking with a much smaller payoff. But like any other feature request you have to weigh the amount of time it would take to design/code/debug vs other options for that time.

10-21-2005, 12:06 AM	#6 (permalink)
swampdragon All Star Starter Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Lonely Mountain Posts: 1,732	Minor leagues frequently have 7 inning doubleheaders. Don't know if that'll be in the game or not, but I would guess not because of the problems gmo listed.

10-21-2005, 04:34 PM	#10 (permalink)
molarmite Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,879	Well then maybe don't put it in ootp, but make a whole new game out of it so you can concentrate on AI instead off all the other features.

10-21-2005, 07:11 PM	#12 (permalink)
molarmite Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,879	I know that's the purpose of the forum, I suggested in for ootp and when that was shot down there was no better place to put that idea for another game than here.