Trading AI

[rwmorey]

Hi..

I'm not sure what others think of this so please give me your feedback..

I recently "bought" a pretty bad team with some aging talent. Near the trade deadline I approached a few contending teams with a "weakness" in an area where I had a guy I thought could contribute to their team. I tried to make a deal with them to send my proven vetern over for two or three prospects, but any time I added a second young guy their response was "the player you want is much yonger than 'X'" so basically it was no deal..

Is there any AI in the game that allows a team to look at the time frame of the deal (i.e. near the deadline) that teams current posistion (i.e. games out of first) and make a deal that has a short term up side ? Is that part of the GM attributes or anything hidden? If not, it would be great to add that.. I know when I've been in the reverse situation I've made those deals and of course the team recieving the prospects usually like the deal.. Although sometimes they scoff..

One funny scenerio was a team had their aging high priced closer on the trading block -- he was in the final year of his contract -- and I tried all kinds of deals and they would not trade him.. and then they didn't making him an extension offer and he signed with someone else in the off season.. so they lost him and got nothing versus getting some prospects from my team.

Rich

[Scott Vibert]

I just dealt a 36 year old starter for a 23 year old reliever with no problem. The key here is you have to be willing to accept the best deal that the AI will allow you to make. The AI (pretty wisely) won't allow you to strip off all their young prospects and if the player is significantly older you may only be able to get one prospect as the AI seems to be smart enough to know the value of prospects relative to old "proven veterans" around the deadline.

[rwmorey]

I understand what you are saying, but I don't think it is unrealistic to want to trade a "proven" guy for more than just ONE "unknown", you know? And it isn't like I'm trying to take a young starter -- I usually look for guys still in the minors, aged 19 - 22 with good ratings .. a lot of potential up side but a relative unknown. What's frustrating too is that when I've been on the other side of those deals the computer usually wants more than one young prospect for their proven player.

I also don't like that the game doesn't give you any ideas on what they are looking for in return. I know Baseball Mogul has a "balance trade" or a "counter offer" button.. I'd love to see something like that implemented in OOTP4.

Rich

[Steve Kuffrey]

Counter offer is planned to be included in the updated to be released in a few weeks.

[rwmorey]

AWESOME! Thanks for that news!

Rich

[DiMaggio5CF]

I too, had this problem when I first started.

I always manage the Yankees, so I tried to deal someone like RonDL White or Shane Spencer for some really good prospects and couldn't get anything.

So during the offseason, both Spencer and White left as a free agent, and I wound up scrambling for replacements.

Sadly, one guy I got was Benny Agbayani at $2.5 million per year.

So at the trading deadline, after Agbayani had lost his job to first John Mabry, then Juan Rivera, I looked to trade him.

I didn't expect to get much, but I wound up dealing him to the Cubs for five pretty decent prospects.

Then, just before the trading deadline, I learned that some teams were interested in "El Duquecito" Adrian Hernandez, who was 27 at the time.

Since he was just in a mop-up role in my bullpen, I dealt him to the Padres for some more decent prospects.

I think the key is to start small. Don't go after the other team's number one prospect.

Think of it the other way around. If you're the Yankees and you're trying to get Vladimir Guerrero, you want him, but you're not going to give up your top five prospects for him.

Start small and look for some good young talented guys. You're not going to get their number one prospect, but you might be able to get their number 4-8 prospects.

If you go to the right team with the right deal, you'll be able to pick up five pretty good prospects.

Just be patient with it.

[DiMaggio5CF]

By the way, I feel that I now have to save face as an OOTP player.

By saying that I picked up Agbayani and Mabry to fill the void left by Spencer and White, it looks like I am hands-down the worst GM in the history of the game.

But let me explain.

I traded some prospects to Pittsburgh to pick up LF Brian Giles and P Kris Benson (to go with Mussina and Pettitte -- El Duque became a FA and Clemens retired).

And I brought up 1B Nick Johnson, who went gangbusters. So I moved him to RF, traded Agbayani, put Mabry on the bench, and sent Juan Rivera back to AAA. Now, in early September, NJ is hitting .340 with 20 HR and 80 RBI.

And my pitching staff is now Mussina, Pettitte, Shane Reynolds (signed as a FA, going 19-3 with a 3.50 ERA), Benson, and Randy Keisler.

We're 80-something, leading the Majors in wins and winning percentage, 12.5 games above the second-place Boston Red Sox.

So the Agbayani and Mabry moves sucked, but I made the best of it, so I'm not the world's worst GM.

[rwmorey]

I see what you are saying.. I'll have to check that out.. But also, I try to go after guys in a posistion where they have depth..

But its sometimes tough because I'm looking for players in a particular posistion to build some depth in my minor leagues..

Rich

[BleacherBum]

You can also toss in a youngster on your side (doesn't have to be a great prospect) and that will help mitigate the CPU's issue with the large age disparity.

[DiversionX]

The trade feature in OOTP is so frustrating to use because you never know what the other team wants, and you often have to make 20, 30 or more combinations just to make a trade and not have to sell half your good players for a key piece.

I hate to plug another sim on this site, but Baseball Mogul does a fantastic job of dealing with trades. You can put people on a trading block and get an immediate response as to the best offer from each and every team. You can throw in cash dollars to sweeten a deal, or find out how much in cash you would have to throw in to make a proposed deal a reality. The search feature in Mogul is much better too, instead of slow drop-down and toggle features that when combined take 30-40 seconds to set up each search (and then reset to default when you're done), Mogul has 2 fast drop-down menus and then blanks to fill in what you want, the difference is quite staggering, if you've experienced them both.

I would love to be able to see just what another team wants when you go to make trades. I'd love to be able to quickly see who is on another team's trading block, or be able to search other team's trading blocks (heck, do CPU teams even have trading blocks?). Finally, similar to High Heat, I'd love to see what players can make a deal happen; In High Heat when you set up prospective trades and the computer won't be getting enough talent to agree, it lets you know with a list of what single player from your team would make it a good trade.

[rwmorey]

Hey..

I haven't played Baseball Mogul since the 99 version.. I think that version had the option to "balance trade" with cash but that was it. I understand the newer version has a "counter offer" button.. I also like what you've mentioned about High Heat.

I really think OOTP needs to add the ability to add money to a deal too.. I once was trying to trade an older player with a pretty high salary and the team was like "We cannot afford player X".. so I looked and they only had about $2mil in cash and my team had like $17mil.. I "editted" my team down to $12 mil and the other team up to $7 mil and then they accepted my trade offer! I Wish I could do that throught he trade window.

Rich

[BleacherBum]

I like that idea of helping the cash poor team cover a contract. Another way this occurs in MLB is one team will continue to pick up part of a big contract, even after trading a player. If I could trade a guy, but continue to pay half his contract that might be a way to get a deal finished.

[Steve Kuffrey]

Adding cash is something that we want to be able to include in the future, I don't look for that in the update but I could be wrong. Also, the counter offer feature will be included as far as I know.

BUT, you will never find a computer game that has a trade feature that suits everyone, either it will be too easy for some, too hard for others, too strict for another, yada, yada, yada......

I'm certain it is something that will get continual examination and tweaking.

[BleacherBum]

You'd be hard pressed to find any feature that suits everyone 100%. Don't let the unattainable deter you - there's plenty of room for improvement here.

[Chitown3304]

when is this new update going to be available

[Steve Kuffrey]

Within the next couple of weeks.

[Chitown3304]

thanxs
and what things will actual be on the patch