Change Stadium Ratings?

[Dark Horse]

i have always been a big fan of the stadium creators from the Mods forum. And i've collected several of them for fictional leagues. And, of course, i'm getting ready for the newest version, so i'll need even more stadiums. And fortunately, the stadium builders have started up again so that won't be a problem. Part of the created stadiums appeal, for me, is that it adds to the story of the team that plays in. Metro Leagues does a great job describing the stadiums, his backgrounds give an idea of the type of the each team plays. And the dimensions always make me think of the type of ballt that must be played in the particular park. Unfortunately, IMHO, the way OOTP handles stadiums is not very good. i've resorted to just keeping every stadium's ratings at 100.

[Dark Horse]

As i understand it, the game decides:

1. Whether a HR, SO or BB happens. This is based on ballpark, pitcher and hitter ratings.

2. If none of the above happen, the ball is put in play and the game determines where the ball is hit (in the air or on the ground and to what fielder) based on pitcher and hitter ratings.

3. Then it determines whether an out occurs based on fielder's ratings.

4. From there, the game will determine whether an extra base hit is a possibility; based on hitter ratings and park factors.

The game is flawed in two areas that make it useless to use different stadiums.

[Dark Horse]

First, it determines whether a home run is hit before determining where the ball is hit. Take Minute Maid Park or Fenway Park, for example, those parks are made for RH pull hitters to hit a lot of doubles and home runs. But OOTP only rates home runs for RH. A RH has the same chance to hit the ball out to dead center as he does to hit out down the line. So it doesn't matter whether is a pull hitter or a spray hitter he has the same chance to hit a home run no matter where he hits it. And most, if not all, major league hitters can hit one out down the left field line at Minute Maid; a little line drive will reach the Crawford Boxes. But it takes a real bomb (the type that normally only big sluggers hit) to get it out to dead center. Now imagine a team having the Polo Grounds short fences down the line and 500+ to center, 400+ in the gaps. Because the HR rating for this park is inflated, because of how short it is down the lines and the number inside the park homers that were hit in that park. You can have pitchers hitting 550 foot bombs to center. That kills the fantasy for me. i even ignore those Joe Blow hit the longest home run of his career messages because of this.

The same argument holds for extra base hits, especially triples. If a ball gets by the fielder in CF, there's a better chance of getting a triple in Minute Maid as opposed to Wrigley Field. But a ball down the left field line in Minute Maid is not likely to be a triple, even with a fast runner. But a fast runner has a good chance for a triple, if a ball gets down the left field line in Wrigley. But the way OOTP handles it currently a player has the same chance to hit a triple in Wrigley field no matter where the player hit the ball. Meanwhile, two parks with good triple ratings, Fenway and Minute Maid, can hit a ball less than 315 feet and get a triple.

[Dark Horse]

Second, take a player like Willie Mays. IRL, whether he's playing in Wrigley Field or the Polo Grounds he's gonna' cover the same amount of area. For the sake of the discussion, if you drew a circle around him to show how much ground he can cover to get to an average fly ball, the area would be 220 feet. And let's say the area in CF at the Polo Grounds is 400 feet, while the area in CF at Wrigley is 200 feet. IRL, Mays would be able to catch virtually everything hit his way in Wrigley, while at the Polo Ground he'd only be able to get to a little over half the flys hit is direction. But in OOTP the game takes a player's rating and gives the player a percentage chance of catching make the play. And he gets that same percentage wherever he plays. So let's say, Mays is given a 75% chance or reaching a fly ball based on his ratings. So basically Mays can cover 300 feet in the Polo Grounds but only 150 feet in Wrigley Field. Again, that' s a buzz kill for me.

The same arguments can be made for infields and their turfs. Some infields are faster and ground balls have a better chance of getting through for singles. And some infields are slower, this gives a better a chance for bunt base hits and infield singles.

[Dark Horse]

My suggestions:

First, base the parks' ratings for avg, XBHs and HRs by parts of the field. If the park's wall is 315 to left, the chance for a HR is increased, but it is less likely to yeild an XBH. Also, a smaller ball park would mean less area for a fielder to cover and increase that likelihood of the LF getting to a ball and making a catch. Bigger parks would have the opposite effect on each rating.

To take it a step further, rate how fast the grass/turf is for each stadium. The faster the grass, the better the chance of a ball getting through the infied. And to a lesser extent the better the chance of a ball get through the gap and roll to the wall in the outfield.

And you could give the size of the foul ground around the park. It is doesn't need to be fancy. i'd be happy with large, medium and small. The larger the foul ground the more likely that a catch can be made. (That's assuming there's a defender with the range to reach the ball.)

i created a spreadsheet that would determine ratings in this manner using Old League Park as a baseline. The game could determine the ratings based on the dimension of the park and the height of the wall.

[Dark Horse]

Second, you'd have to change the way the game decides the outcome of the pitcher/batter confrontation.

1. Determine whether a pitched ball is hit or if its a strike or if its a ball. (Based on pitcher and hitter ratings) If the ball is hit, the game goes to step two.
2. Determine if the hit ball is a "deep fly ball" (Based on pitcher and hitter ratings) If its a deep fly the game goes to step 3, if not the game goes to step 7.
3. Determine the direction the ball is hit; LL, LF, LC, CF, RC, RF, RL? (Based on hitter ratings)
4. Determine if the deep fly is a HR. (Based on hitter ratings and park factors) If yes, end of play. If no, the games goes to step 5.
5. Determine if the deep fly is catchable. (Based on hitter ratings, fielder ratings and park factors.) If the ball is caught, end of play. If the ball falls safely or if an error occurs the game goes to step 6.
6. Determine how many bases the runner gets. (Based on fielder and runner ratings.) From here the game is ready to go to the next pitcher/batter confrontation.

If the ball is hit, but it is not a deep fly, the game would follow these steps.

7. Determine if the hit ball is a fly ball or ground ball. (Based on pitcher and hitter ratings.)
8. Determine what direction the ball is hit. (Based on hitter ratings.)
9. Determine if an out can be recorded. (Based on fielder and hitter ratings and ballpark factors.) If an out can be recorded, end of play. If a hit or an error occurs the game goes to step 10.
10. Determine how many bases the runner gets. (Based on fielder and runner ratings.) From here the game is ready to go to the next pitcher/batter confrontation.

[Dark Horse]

Some might not like this change especially, historical players and possibly modern players also, because there is no statistical way of the determining the ratings. It would have to be tweaked until it felt right. For that reason, i'm hoping for this change in future versions rather than immediately. And, of course, the game can always be made to give the user the chance to choose traditional park ratings or fictional park ratings.

[rcbuss]

Originally Posted by Dark Horse

Second, you'd have to change the way the game decides the outcome of the pitcher/batter confrontation.

1. Determine whether a pitched ball is hit or if its a strike or if its a ball. (Based on pitcher and hitter ratings) If the ball is hit, the game goes to step two.
2. Determine if the hit ball is a "deep fly ball" (Based on pitcher and hitter ratings) If its a deep fly the game goes to step 3, if not the game goes to step 7.
3. Determine the direction the ball is hit; LL, LF, LC, CF, RC, RF, RL? (Based on hitter ratings)
4. Determine if the deep fly is a HR. (Based on hitter ratings and park factors) If yes, end of play. If no, the games goes to step 5.
5. Determine if the deep fly is catchable. (Based on hitter ratings, fielder ratings and park factors.) If the ball is caught, end of play. If the ball falls safely or if an error occurs the game goes to step 6.
6. Determine how many bases the runner gets. (Based on fielder and runner ratings.) From here the game is ready to go to the next pitcher/batter confrontation.

If the ball is hit, but it is not a deep fly, the game would follow these steps.

7. Determine if the hit ball is a fly ball or ground ball. (Based on pitcher and hitter ratings.)
8. Determine what direction the ball is hit. (Based on hitter ratings.)
9. Determine if an out can be recorded. (Based on fielder and hitter ratings and ballpark factors.) If an out can be recorded, end of play. If a hit or an error occurs the game goes to step 10.
10. Determine how many bases the runner gets. (Based on fielder and runner ratings.) From here the game is ready to go to the next pitcher/batter confrontation.

Great stuff! This would be a huge step in the right direction.

The Hardball Times 2006 annual has batted ball data indicating that pitchers have relatively little influence over whether a fly ball stays in the park or not (as opposed to the hitter, and park effects). Making the GB/FB ratings for pitchers dynamic, and linking them to pitcher HR-allowance tendencies is very important, as had been discussed previously in other threads.

Regarding hitter types (pull, straight-away, spray), we've all seen how parks affect different players in different ways. Barry Bonds, a lefty pull hitter with pronounced fly ball tendencies and tremendous power, hits better at home than on the road, whereas many of his teammates fare better away from Pac Bell/SBC Park.

On a related point, I recall reading about how GB tend to be pulled more than FB. It would be nice to see this incorporated into a future version, as well.

Anything that can make this game more true-to-life gets my vote.

[mrbill]

Originally Posted by rcbuss

On a related point, I recall reading about how GB tend to be pulled more than FB. It would be nice to see this incorporated into a future version, as well.

This seems empirically true, look at the Giambi shift, the Ortiz shift, etc. Seems like they pull groundballs all the time, but they are much less pronounced pull hitters when its in the air.

[cephasjames]

Originally Posted by Dark Horse

i have always been a big fan of the stadium creators from the Mods forum. And i've collected several of them for fictional leagues.

No wonder why I can't find as many of them.

On a seperate and equally silly note (hopefully), Dark Horse, it it weren't for the fact that you presented such a good argument I'd have thought you were trying to pad you post number with all these posts.

[Dark Horse]

Originally Posted by cephasjames

No wonder why I can't find as many of them.

All part of my master plan!

Originally Posted by cephasjames

On a seperate and equally silly note (hopefully), Dark Horse, it it weren't for the fact that you presented such a good argument I'd have thought you were trying to pad you post number with all these posts.

LOL, believe me, if i had put all of that in one post, no one, besides me, would've read it. At least, this way, you can read a post. Then take a break, get some lunch. Then read another post.