Terrible AI decision

Maple Leafs · 11-06-2002, 04:02 PM

I debated whether to post this here or in the "Wishlist" forum, since it's not technically a bug. I'm also sure that similar situations have been mentioned before, but I thought I'd throw it out there in hopes it might help the OOTP5 developers.

Situation:
- Online league (so no human manager input during the sims)
- My starting LF gets hurt long-term.
- My only other OF who has a LF rating is the starting DH
- Other backups OFs are available, although they only have CF/RF ratings

Problem:
- OOTP's AI decides to use my starting catcher in LF. He ends up commiting 14 errors (on 14 chances) in four games, and my playoff hopes vanish.

Now, I can kind of see what the AI is trying to do. Not finding any LF-eligible players among my subs, it improvised. Fair enough, and in hindsight I should have had that LF listed as a backup just to be safe.

But there's two problems here. First, the game went out and picked the worst possible replacement. Why a catcher (and the starter, no less)? There needs to be some sort of logic in place here, even if it's rough-around-the-edges.

And second, while I realize there needs to be some penalty for out of position players, 14 errors in 14 chances is ridiculous. Any baseball player can catch a fly ball a reasonable percentage of the time. Even Todd Hundley was able to make a catch or two.

Hopefully this is something that can be improved in a future verison.

Scott Vibert · 11-06-2002, 04:10 PM

I have almost never seen a fielder do that poorly out of position... (Actually a lot of times people have complained that game doesn't penalize players enough for playing out fo positions).

The Roster/Lineup AI was announced by Markus as being totally reworked for OOTP5. So hopefully that can help rectify the situation.

drprestwood · 11-06-2002, 04:22 PM

Is the rework going to penalize some more and some less? I mean, a catcher would be worse in LF than somebody who's only rated at CF/RF.

Maple Leafs · 11-06-2002, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ScottVib
I have almost never seen a fielder do that poorly out of position...

Heh... just my bad luck, eh? Not sure if that should make me feel better or worse.

Good to hear that OOTP5 will be better.

Raven · 11-06-2002, 05:38 PM

I'm in the same league as Maple Leafs and can say that I also saw the problem his catcher had.

The AI also has a tendency to use a specific pitcher of mine as a pinch runner, despite the fact that I have a reserve OF on my bench who has B/B speed. This same OF also has a tendency to be my substitute SS, despite me having another SS and a 2B on my bench.

Killebrew · 11-06-2002, 06:15 PM

Quote:

14 errors (on 14 chances) in four games

Holy c*ap that is awfull

! The only time I have seen anything remotely close was in a Lahman historical league with wacky defensive ratings like a .455 fielding %. I think there has been some kind of workaround for this Lahman import issue - are you guys in a Lahman generated league by any chance (meaning historical I guess)?

Maple Leafs · 11-06-2002, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Killebrew
are you guys in a Lahman generated league by any chance (meaning historical I guess)?

Nope... using Rolen's rosters. Here's a link if anyone's interested at laughing at my expense:
http://www.rwbl.ootp-leagues.com/league/team5f.htm

(Scroll down to LF, and look at Josh Phelps.)

sporr · 11-07-2002, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ScottVib
I have almost never seen a fielder do that poorly out of position... (Actually a lot of times people have complained that game doesn't penalize players enough for playing out fo positions).

The Roster/Lineup AI was announced by Markus as being totally reworked for OOTP5. So hopefully that can help rectify the situation.

It can get worse. Jose Canseco committed 80 errors in 81 chances while playing in RF for 225 innings. This was in Baseball Maelstrom. He committed up to 7 errors in a single game. I will say that I have never seen this at any other time though, so I'm not sure if this can really qualify as a bug. And as far as I know, none of them bounced off of his head for a homer either.

MTXperience · 11-21-2002, 02:10 AM

I just had something similar happen to me in an on-line league.

Situation:
1st sim of the season in the CDL on-line league, my starting RFer goes down for 2 months in the second game. Whom does OOTP choose to be my starting RFer the next game and for 7 games after? One of the 2 backup OFers I have listed as utility player at that position in the depth chart? Nope... OOTP puts one of my MRers in... one with a 0 hitting... standard pitcher hiting ratings. Quite odd. I'm pretty sure the CDL uses 4.2a, and I've yet to see anything like that in previous versions.

woburn · 11-21-2002, 02:35 PM

In the QBA, I noticed a pitcher filling in for an injured outfielder during a sim last season. This was definitely prior to applying the 4.2 patches (so version 4.1?)

spleen1015 · 11-21-2002, 03:17 PM

You guys know there's a work around for this right?

Turn injuries off

Cooleyvol · 11-21-2002, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by spleen1015
You guys know there's a work around for this right?

Turn injuries off

..........or use depth charts.

WOW!! That was my 1000th post................as if it matters to me, but still great to see it.

woburn · 11-21-2002, 04:42 PM

Actually, the situation I saw ignored the depth chart. There was a backup player listed to start about 5% of games, but when the starter got injured, the comp. had a pitcher start in CF instead.

11-06-2002, 04:02 PM	#1 (permalink)
Maple Leafs Minors (Triple A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 234 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 posts	Terrible AI decision I debated whether to post this here or in the "Wishlist" forum, since it's not technically a bug. I'm also sure that similar situations have been mentioned before, but I thought I'd throw it out there in hopes it might help the OOTP5 developers. Situation: - Online league (so no human manager input during the sims) - My starting LF gets hurt long-term. - My only other OF who has a LF rating is the starting DH - Other backups OFs are available, although they only have CF/RF ratings Problem: - OOTP's AI decides to use my starting catcher in LF. He ends up commiting 14 errors (on 14 chances) in four games, and my playoff hopes vanish. Now, I can kind of see what the AI is trying to do. Not finding any LF-eligible players among my subs, it improvised. Fair enough, and in hindsight I should have had that LF listed as a backup just to be safe. But there's two problems here. First, the game went out and picked the worst possible replacement. Why a catcher (and the starter, no less)? There needs to be some sort of logic in place here, even if it's rough-around-the-edges. And second, while I realize there needs to be some penalty for out of position players, 14 errors in 14 chances is ridiculous. Any baseball player can catch a fly ball a reasonable percentage of the time. Even Todd Hundley was able to make a catch or two. Hopefully this is something that can be improved in a future verison.

11-06-2002, 04:22 PM	#3 (permalink)
drprestwood All Star Starter Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The District Posts: 1,496 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 posts	Is the rework going to penalize some more and some less? I mean, a catcher would be worse in LF than somebody who's only rated at CF/RF. __________________ All-Time Hardball League Maui Monsoon Bill Clinton League Chicago White Sox

11-21-2002, 03:17 PM	#11 (permalink)
spleen1015 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana Posts: 5,193 Thanks: 61 Thanked 132x in 78 posts	You guys know there's a work around for this right? Turn injuries off __________________ GM Indianapolis 500s- Classic Baseball Union The American Baseball Congress - a fictional/historical league dynasty currently in 1871

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11-06-2002, 04:10 PM	#2 (permalink)
Scott Vibert Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: My Computer Posts: 7,551 Thanks: 72 Thanked 48x in 30 posts	I have almost never seen a fielder do that poorly out of position... (Actually a lot of times people have complained that game doesn't penalize players enough for playing out fo positions). The Roster/Lineup AI was announced by Markus as being totally reworked for OOTP5. So hopefully that can help rectify the situation.

11-06-2002, 05:38 PM	#5 (permalink)
Raven Minors (Single A) Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 94 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 posts	I'm in the same league as Maple Leafs and can say that I also saw the problem his catcher had. The AI also has a tendency to use a specific pitcher of mine as a pinch runner, despite the fact that I have a reserve OF on my bench who has B/B speed. This same OF also has a tendency to be my substitute SS, despite me having another SS and a 2B on my bench.

11-21-2002, 02:10 AM	#9 (permalink)
MTXperience Major Leagues Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 372 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1x in 1 post	I just had something similar happen to me in an on-line league. Situation: 1st sim of the season in the CDL on-line league, my starting RFer goes down for 2 months in the second game. Whom does OOTP choose to be my starting RFer the next game and for 7 games after? One of the 2 backup OFers I have listed as utility player at that position in the depth chart? Nope... OOTP puts one of my MRers in... one with a 0 hitting... standard pitcher hiting ratings. Quite odd. I'm pretty sure the CDL uses 4.2a, and I've yet to see anything like that in previous versions.

11-21-2002, 02:35 PM	#10 (permalink)
woburn Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 191 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 posts	In the QBA, I noticed a pitcher filling in for an injured outfielder during a sim last season. This was definitely prior to applying the 4.2 patches (so version 4.1?)

11-21-2002, 04:42 PM	#13 (permalink)
woburn Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 191 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 posts	Actually, the situation I saw ignored the depth chart. There was a backup player listed to start about 5% of games, but when the starter got injured, the comp. had a pitcher start in CF instead.