Things that are making this a Triple A game

[smartman]

I will list the problems from the most severe to very annoying.

1. Players striking out and then ending up on first(no mention of a wild pitch and happens too frequently anyway--every third game). It is an obvious strikeout, then he ends up on first with no record of the K or the out.

2. The single most annoying thing of the game: the repeated foul balls. The game goes into a loop for anywhere to 2-8! foul balls. I have played around 90 games and have seen a strikeout and a walk as the only times it has been skipped from the loop. It will even happen if there is another pitch thrown in-between. No this is not realistic, and having to re-select the same button 7 times is a grievous error. It is a loop because 90% of the time it is the exact same play-by-play on the next pitch.

3. The vaunted new AI has severe holes in it. I am sick and tired of watching my players swing in situations that no little league coach would have them swing at. I lost several games when players have gotten outs on a 3-0 & 3-1 counts with the bases loaded and less than 2 outs, 2nd and 3rd and less than 2 outs. The list goes on and on. Either fix the AI or give the player the choice to select to swing or not. This wasn't a noticable problem in 3, so I don't know why it is killing gameplay now.

4. In a related story, pitching replacement by the computer is pitiful. They either go to the bullpen 2 innings too early or lose because they let the starter pitch over 110 pitches in the 8th inning. This is making simming games nearly impossible because you know you will lose soooo many games you shouldn't. Yes, I have even tinkered with the selections.

5. Players with great arms (A or B) will not throw home on a player tagging from 3rd even if he has D or worse speed and no one else is on base.

6. And lastly, the video has been screwed up since 3. My cursor has a blinking square right above it. It doesn't matter what card I have (tried 3), and it doesn't matter what video setting I have the game set on. This is just a mere annoyance but something that should have been fixed.

This game has such great potential, but 3 was a much more stable program overall. This means that we got a beta game because no upgrade has added this many bugs and errors than this one. I hope you get it fixed soon guys.

[Scott Vibert]

[quote]Originally posted by smartman:
<strong>I will list the problems from the most severe to very annoying.

1. Players striking out and then ending up on first(no mention of a wild pitch and happens too frequently anyway--every third game). It is an obvious strikeout, then he ends up on first with no record of the K or the out.</strong>
Haven't seen this at all in OOTP4. In fact in all the playing of games during testing I never had this occur! I know this does occur and it is supposed to occur because of the wild pitch/strike three issue. I agree that there should be a mention of the wild pitch and the batter reaching first.
<strong>
2. The single most annoying thing of the game: the repeated foul balls. The game goes into a loop for anywhere to 2-8! foul balls. I have played around 90 games and have seen a strikeout and a walk as the only times it has been skipped from the loop. It will even happen if there is another pitch thrown in-between. No this is not realistic, and having to re-select the same button 7 times is a grievous error. It is a loop because 90% of the time it is the exact same play-by-play on the next pitch.</strong>
People complained and asked for the foul balls and sometimes you get some good battles. This may be something to look at, but I haven't seen the loop that you are talking about, any rate the PbP is selected after the result is garnered, since there is only a finite number of PbP lines you are bound to get some repeats. I will go back and count the number of foul balls in my next few games and I'll see if I can dig up some MLB stats to compare them too.
<strong>
3. The vaunted new AI has severe holes in it. I am sick and tired of watching my players swing in situations that no little league coach would have them swing at. I lost several games when players have gotten outs on a 3-0 & 3-1 counts with the bases loaded and less than 2 outs, 2nd and 3rd and less than 2 outs. The list goes on and on. Either fix the AI or give the player the choice to select to swing or not. This wasn't a noticable problem in 3, so I don't know why it is killing gameplay now.</strong>
I haven't seen any change in this AI since OOTP3, so either you were very lucky and didn't notice it in OOTP3 or you've just run into a sequence where you are seeing it more often in OOTP4 and it should balance out again to OOTP3 levels. (I know when I was playing though the 3-1 count was the hack away count almost regardless of the situation; and sometimes you do get the green light on 3-0 (although I think OOTP3 tended to give this too often IMO). The ability to not swing would be useless in this 1-pitch simulation, as you don't know when you'll have a 3-0 or a 3-1 count.
<strong>
4. In a related story, pitching replacement by the computer is pitiful. They either go to the bullpen 2 innings too early or lose because they let the starter pitch over 110 pitches in the 8th inning. This is making simming games nearly impossible because you know you will lose soooo many games you shouldn't. Yes, I have even tinkered with the selections.</strong>
I haven't seen this. In fact very few of my starters (or the computers) ever reach the 8th inning, most tire at about the 100 pitch point typically reached in the 6th or 7th innings (as it should and as is typical now-a-days in the majors).
<strong>
5. Players with great arms (A or B) will not throw home on a player tagging from 3rd even if he has D or worse speed and no one else is on base.</strong>
This is because the game determined the fly ball to be too deep for any realistic shot at catching the runner, unfortunately you are not notified to this fact (which would be a good thing). Even guys with cannons don't make the effort to throw the guy out at the plate on a fly ball deep to the outfield (not even necessarily to the track).
<strong>
6. And lastly, the video has been screwed up since 3. My cursor has a blinking square right above it. It doesn't matter what card I have (tried 3), and it doesn't matter what video setting I have the game set on. This is just a mere annoyance but something that should have been fixed.</strong>
How do you mean what blinking square? What video settings? The only time I see a cursor in this game is when you enter in the name of a text file, or are in the editor, so I'm unsure of what you mean here, but is something I didn't see.
<strong>
This game has such great potential, but 3 was a much more stable program overall. This means that we got a beta game because no upgrade has added this many bugs and errors than this one. I hope you get it fixed soon guys.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I will go through this evening (and this weekend) and really search for these issues.

Do you have anymore details or some hard stats for some of these in game so I have something to compare this too?

Trust me this game isn't a beta version, the beta team got about 6 new versions of the game in the last two weeks of testing (plus many other versions throughout the few months of testing) as we mowed through bugs right up to release, and we've gotten several versions of beta patches as we mow through new bugs that either we or the rest of the users discover and try to tweak the game for the majority of the peoples approval.

As I mentioned I'll be printing out this email and I will check this out as I get a chance to this weekend. (Just one more thing on the list to check) If you have any hard numbers to offer for comparison (what the correct totals of foul balls or how often batters swing on 3-1 counts, etc), please send them on and I will use them for a basis of comparison.

[Khaos]

It sucks you are not happy with the game, but read these boards and you'll see you are in a minority. Hopefully things can get cleared up for you, but when its only you posting these issues, don't be so quick to blame the game itself.

[wireman]

I've never seen #1 either. Maybe your PBP is set on "BetchaCan'tReadThis" speed and something's zipping by unnoticed ( ).

I have noticed that a foul ball tends to launch the game into "foul ball derby" mode, in which it will be followed by a succession of foul balls. It seems like this happens about 90 percent of the time, so it feels pretty predictable. Maybe there should be a few more isolated foul balls just to throw us off the track.

Anyway, no biggie. I'd say this would be at the bottom of the list of potential tweaks.

--Louie

[mtw]

Since I have nothing better to do this morning, I thought I would reply from a not-in-the-loop-but-familiar-with-playing-the-game-because-it-has-dominated-my-spare-time-for-the-last-several-months-perspective:

[quote]Originally posted by smartman:
<strong>I will list the problems from the most severe to very annoying.

1. Players striking out and then ending up on first(no mention of a wild pitch and happens too frequently anyway--every third game). It is an obvious strikeout, then he ends up on first with no record of the K or the out.</strong>

I saw this maybe twice in OOTP3 in 100's (1000's) of played games. I have yet to see this in OOTP4 through about 100 games. The two times (or so) that it happened in OOTP3, yeah I guess it was a little annoying not to know what happened. But it was so infrequent (twice out of ????? AB's) that it didn't bother me. However, if you are seeing this frequently, then the text string should be fixed (as it was for batter ejections on third strike calls) and the appropriate scoring made, and I'm sure that it will be, frequent or not.


<strong>2. The single most annoying thing of the game: the repeated foul balls. The game goes into a loop for anywhere to 2-8! foul balls. I have played around 90 games and have seen a strikeout and a walk as the only times it has been skipped from the loop. It will even happen if there is another pitch thrown in-between. No this is not realistic, and having to re-select the same button 7 times is a grievous error. It is a loop because 90% of the time it is the exact same play-by-play on the next pitch.</strong>

I have really looked hard at this one, because it is a new feature and I like nothing less than perfection from the baseball games I play Truthfully, I think the foul balls are a tremendous addition to the game, and I rarely (maybe a couple of times, maybe) have seen two identical calls on consecutive foul balls. Also, I think the number of foul balls on two strikes is generally appropriate. If I would suggest any tweak, it would be to cut down on the number of extended foul ball at bat's (5+ 2 K fouls), and increase the number of 1-2 2K foul balls. Contrary to your view and only my opinion, I think the foul balls are good as is.

<strong>3. The vaunted new AI has severe holes in it. I am sick and tired of watching my players swing in situations that no little league coach would have them swing at. I lost several games when players have gotten outs on a 3-0 & 3-1 counts with the bases loaded and less than 2 outs, 2nd and 3rd and less than 2 outs. The list goes on and on. Either fix the AI or give the player the choice to select to swing or not. This wasn't a noticable problem in 3, so I don't know why it is killing gameplay now.</strong>

I'm pretty sure that game determines what event is forthcoming, and then generates a pitch count as "window dressing" to the event, but I could be wrong. At least that's what I've been telling myself when I see those 3-0 swings by my 3 CH, 0 PH shortstop with the bases loaded.

<strong>4. In a related story, pitching replacement by the computer is pitiful. They either go to the bullpen 2 innings too early or lose because they let the starter pitch over 110 pitches in the 8th inning. This is making simming games nearly impossible because you know you will lose soooo many games you shouldn't. Yes, I have even tinkered with the selections.</strong>

I agree that there is some tinkering that could be done here, but I'm also fairly sure that it is a work in progress and that it's probably very hard to program the AI to address every specific instance when to bring in a reliever, especially for modern day games (8th inning, up by one, should the AI bring in a lefty to face the LH, then a righty to face the RH, then a lefty for the LH? I don't know.) What I think could be changed, and fairly easily to implement in the AI are three things:

1) (this is a shameless plug for a patch inclusion I've been begging for ) Because of foul balls and rain delays, starters are going to lose an inning or two per start from OOTP3, and when combined with the reduction of pitcher endurance for each rating by about 20 pitches, starters are a whole lot less effective. Changing the endurance values back to there original OOTP3 values would help this out a bit, and prevent situations where a pitcher is pulled in the 6th inning while throwing a shutout and having thrown only 75 pitches.

2) (another shameless plug ) Change the "pitches remaining" factor in determining when to pinch hit for a starting pitcher back to its OOTP3 value, unless a pitcher is losing close and late, or the pitcher does not have a "quality start". Currently, pitchers will be pinch hit for if they have ~30 (25 to 35) pitches remaining. In OOTP3, it was about 15, at most 20.

3) On the League Era setting, if set to "Normal" or more frequent use of relievers, the AI should always pull a starter (and maybe middle reliever) close and late (8th inning on) when that pitcher has allowed a runner to reach base, the tying run to come to the plate and it is a save situation (this is a very common situation where almost universally in the current day a pitcher would be pulled in favor of the closer or another effective reliever/set-up man, as appropriate). This would cut down on pitchers being left in for the opposing team to "rally" against, as still seems to happen with some frequency in OOTP4.

These suggestions certainly do not address all situations, but I think that they would make a significant improvement and (with my limited knowledge of programming) that they are fairly easy to implement (2 are just changing the value of a variable, and the third is an absolute rule for a given situation--of course, if there is no one available in bullpen... Just glad it's not my headache to fix.

<strong>5. Players with great arms (A or B) will not throw home on a player tagging from 3rd even if he has D or worse speed and no one else is on base.</strong>

Does this happen as frequently as it should? I can't say and I'm not sure where you'd find the data to support the number of plays at home per sac fly, but I have noticed that throws home are fairly infrequent, and when they do happen the vast majority seem to be "wild throws". What you may also notice is that there are a lot of "non-productive" outs with runners on 3rd and less than 2 outs (a greater % of grounders to third or the mound, shallow fly balls, popouts and strikeouts.) Because of the number of these "unproductive" outs, I have always assumed that the infrequent throws home were to reflect that the fly out was deep enough to score a runner without a play (the ball is cutoff, etc.), and the numbers of sac flys I have seen always seemed reasonable. I agree that an additional line of text in a sac fly situation (such as "the ball is cutoff" or "there will be a play" or "the ball is too deep to make a play") would be a nice addition.

<strong>6. And lastly, the video has been screwed up since 3. My cursor has a blinking square right above it. It doesn't matter what card I have (tried 3), and it doesn't matter what video setting I have the game set on. This is just a mere annoyance but something that should have been fixed.</strong>

Nothing to offer here; I have never seen this, and except for one instance (that I think was my fault and was easily fixed), both OOTP3 and OOTP4 have worked flawlessly on my computer.
[QB]<hr></blockquote>

[ March 14, 2002: Message edited by: mtw ]</p>

[Scott Vibert]

mtw, I agree with you on the foul ball thing, that was the main reason I was willing to go through and count things up. A decrease in marathon at bats with an increase of 1/2 foul ball at bats would be nice for appearences, but game play wise is only a minor factor.

The pitches relief suggestion is something I'll look into a bit deeper and offer a recommendation when I have a more solid thought one way or another... (I've been hemmming and hawwing over whether or not I think the pitcher endurance reduction went overboard, I think a small tweak upwards might be necessary.

[smartman]

Here is the close to hard data on these occurances on the topics I listed.

I have played about 100 games of OOTP4. In those games, I have seen #1 happen about at least 7 times probably closer to 12. I do have PBP set to medium so I never miss a line. I even replayed the PBP when it first happened, and it never mentioned anything about a passed ball or anything. Also, I know something is wrong because the pitcher doesn't get credit for a K which should happen. Nothing happens statistically for either the pitcher or batter.

2. I think the following posts on the foul balls is a good solution, but it seemed to me that version 1 or 2 of this series (yes I have been playing that long) had the PBP go on until the batter put it in play or got an out. This would be the best solution because strategy shouldn't change at all. The clicking constantly is really annoying and detracts from the fast-moving fluidity of this game, that is the main problem with that.

3. As for the 3-0 and 3-1 count thing, it happens at least once a game when I get into that situation (runners at 2nd and 3rd or loaded (or 1st and second and no outs) and less than 2 outs with either the top but much more often with the bottom of my lineup). So the percentage that it occurs would be at least 40% of the time, probably more because I am not nearly as mad when they screw things up. I just know that it has cost me at least 4 games this season and I have played 65. I do agree that the middle of my lineup should probably swing away on a 3-1 count in those situations. However, if the pitcher just walked the previous batter(s), then you should take especially on a 3-0 count. I never would give a green light to the 7 or 8 hitters in any situation, unless the ball was screaming HIT ME as it came in at 70 MPH belt high.

4. I agree that on deep fly balls they shouldn't throw. The only problem is that I have had times when the fielder has been coming forward (by PBP), and not thrown. If it is too deep to make an attempt, the PBP should say so (should not be that difficult to add). Also, the very same outfielders (mostly RF and CF) will throw to 3rd to try to get a B or C speed runner on a very similar fly ball, so they should throw home.
5. I don't know how much detail I can give you on the pitcher problem. The computer team seems to have it down pat with the righty-lefty switching and double-switching. It seems to go overboard very rarely, though, but that isn't abnormal. It seems to affect my team more than the computer when I sim. I just lost a game 5-4 when my starting pitcher (who does have an A En rating) gave up 5 runs in the 9th and getting one out. He ended up throwing 130 pitches. That is the worst case, but there is more, including relief pitchers throwing 3 consecutive days of over 20 pitches (and yes there were plenty of other pitchers available) and they never bring the closer in before the 9th, just occasionally I would love to see an 1 1/3 saves.

The video problem is like I described. My mouse cursor blinks all the time when sitting still. Above that is a little square that doesn't refresh in time or something similar to that image. It also leaves the same text in the charts if you change something and the cursor is over it. When you click on an open space, it fixes the problem. The 3 video cards I have tried on versions 2-4 are 8MB Diamond, 16MB TNT2, and the one now is an 8MB ATI Rage Pro (no laughing). DirectX has always been the current version that is out there.

I do love the potential of this game. I wouldn't have bought the other 3 versions if I didn't. However, these bugs need to be worked out.

[Steve Kuffrey]

Just to give a little insight here, all in all for v4 I have probably actually played out 700-1000 games. Some of the things you mentioned are things that need some attention, some of the pbp isn't as detailed as it may need to be(not a huge issue IMO). I feel that the foul balls add a great deal of realism to the game and would not change that. But honestly the other things I have not seen for v4, I did see some of them in v3 in certain cases.

One thing about "bugs/glitches" whatever you want to call them in a program is that you have to usually experience them before you can fix them(ocassionally not the case, sometimes you stumble upon them while doing other things within the code), so if these issues are in fact "there" they are not making themselves known to us(which surprises me and the other testers I am sure). If they aren't experienced then they need to be reproducable, I have done this with several problems that users have reported and have been able to make the "glitch" happen so again it has been found. In none of the many, many games I have played have I seen these problems.

One of the issues mentioned I "would" have agreed with you on a few years ago...but apparently that is OLD-SCHOOL now and that is taking 3-0 and 3-1 in many situations. I listen to countless numbers of games and this is just one area that baseball has changed, guys are now allowed to "hack away" just about any time they want.....this was and is hard for me to see, but I guess we'll have to adjust.

The pitcher useage seems just about right-on to me as very few guys pitch 8 innings anymore. In this age of specialist it is usually the 7th and at times the 6th when the "set-up man" makes his appearance...to set things up for the closer. This is inline with how the game is changing.

The last issue is the video issue and probably the toughest one. I'm just curious but how many different computer configurations do you think there are? 1,000? 5,000? 10,000? taking into consideration the all combinations of all components.....I really have no idea. But I will promise you that it is more than you or I could afford to setup in our home or small business to test a software program on each machine in a matter of months. Although I am sorta surprised if you tried 3 different video cards with no success. I have an idea that it may be something other than that however as computer can do strange things and we thing it is one thing and it is another.

Well, that is just my thoughts on this situation.

[smartman]

go ahead and skip the previous listing. I can summarize what he said. &lt;Pat repeatedly on my head&gt; Don't worry little person with an IQ under 40, the game is alright as is. So you can't reproduce the bugs, that is fine. Stranger things have happened in the world. To insinuate that I have made up bugs just because they aren't showing up for you, is rude and pitiful. I have played over 200 computer games over 9 years! I have built over 15 computers! If everyone here wants to treat me like an idiot, I will not be buying version 5. It will probably be complete with guarenteed 5 foul balls per batter for added realism. The foul balls were never the issue. The problem was that you have to click everytime after a foul ball. I have never been more offended in my life! You can personnally bite me.

[BasicGuy]

slow down smartman. No where did he insult you. He does work for OOTP so of course his reply might seem slighty one sided. But would you expect someone at any other company to not be? He partialy agreed on some of your points.

Now I read OOTP1's post and no where did I feel he said or implide your IQ was low or that you were dumb....But as by your nick I think you might be hung up on your IQ

Brad

[Cooleyvol]

smartman, get three things:

1) a life
2) a new username; that one doesnt fit you
3) out of here

[Steve Kuffrey]

I did not then nor now insult or imply anything regarding your intelligence, BUT neither am I or any other game designer going to automatically start tearing down code based on a few references to some possible issues. If "I" or other game designers can't reproduce the problem then how(if it is a problem) are we going to fix it? We can't.

Have I said you made these issues up? NO, but I know that "often" the case is that the software user either hasn't or doesn't know all the details of their problem....and many software issues are user-end problems and not the program. Am I saying that this game is perfect? NO, not at all.....but if I can't get the program to do the things you or any other user claims then what am I supposed to do? If I don't see a certain problem or neither have my testers what am I supposed to do? It sounds like you have experience with computers but not with tech support or the customer service side of things. This is how you must deal with these issues.

Plus, I need to keep an eye out for them. Because certain "bugs" or problems can be VERY isolated and only show up in rare circumstances and NO other. So it is not always a cut and dried thing.

[Khaos]

I read his attitude in his initial post which is why I responded the way I did. He showed his true colors not long after.

[Scott Vibert]

[quote]Originally posted by smartman:
<strong>If everyone here wants to treat me like an idiot, I will not be buying version 5.
... snip ...
I have never been more offended in my life! You can personnally bite me.</strong><hr></blockquote>


I didn't realize that you thought I was insulting you, I tried to address your concerns as well as I could and mentioned that I would check on the when I got a chance this weekend, which I was still planning to do.

Thank you for the clarification of your issue with the foul balls, in your initial post you had mentioned an infinite loop, so I assumed that was your complaint, I didn't realize you were referring to clicking the button each time.

I also pointed out that the PbP was lacking for the batter reaching base on a strikeout... this is a known and previously reported bug (as is the scoring issue). My direct quote: "I agree there should be mention of the wild pitch and the batter reaching first"

The other issues I hadn't seen yet myself in my testing and I was willing and intending to go and track them down.

I'm sorry if anything I posted offended you, it wasn't my intent, I was merely trying to offer some help, but apparently my reply wasn't satisfactory.

[smartman]

Gee, only one "super-intelligent" get-a-life response. I credit this to a strong fan base of a super-strategic game. To all of those who thought of leaving that response and didn't, you are great people. Since I am in sales and tech support at a local store here, I will give you what I consider to be an appropriate answer to my original problems/concerns.

Dear Sir,

We are deeply sorry that you are experiencing problems with our product that are affecting your enjoyment of this game. The design team thoroughly tested this game and unfortunately, have not had any of the problems you listed here. We will, however, recheck the problems you listed and see if we can recreate them. To that end, we would appreciate more data on these (list what data you needed from me). In other listings on this site, people have complained about the foul balls. However, we feel that they add realism and have gotten many positive comments on them as well.

Now read that and see if there is any hint of being talked down to on my end. No. That is my biggest pet peeve in the world especially when I know a ton about that topic, in this case computer games. Some of my comments were improper because they were clouded in anger due to that fact. You did promise to look at these problems, which I am sure you will do. I was too upset at that point to care, so I do apologize. I don't know who would waste their time inventing "bugs" much less post them or e-mail them to you. I have much more important things to do in my life than that. Just remember the saying about assuming things.

One last thing on the K then ending up on 1st thing is that I don't believe there is a dropped 3rd strike. The PBP says something like he swung at a beautiful pitch and missed, he was way behind on that pitch, or he was caught looking on that pitch. Most of the time it seems like this occurs not on a breaking ball but on a changeup or fastball. Also there is no mention of a throw. If that is all part of the known bug, I am sorry for repeating that.

[Arbiter]

[quote]Originally posted by smartman:
<strong>I have played over 200 computer games over 9 years!</strong><hr></blockquote>

OK, I'm curious. To paraphrase a favorite movie, how do you manage to go to the baffroom?

[quote]<strong>
I have built over 15 computers!</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's nice. How many have you *designed*?

[ March 16, 2002: Message edited by: Arbiter ]</p>

[CMH]

"smartman" i'm in no way insulting you or wateva. but it just seems to me that you are askin (or demanding) that everyone treat you nice and proper, but i have not come across a post by you in which you practice what you preach. i'm not sayin you have been mean, b/c you have taken the time to explain yourself and credit to you for doing that. but going out and stating a thank you for those people that did not act foolish by bringing you down only makes me wonder, why did you not point out that there are people here who have tried to be helpful? as for steve, he is trying his best. it makes a lot of sense that he can not help you. as he has stated, your problems are unique and a programmer can not fix a problem in which they have not come across themselves. there are thousands and thousands of lines of code that go into making a game like OOTP. i am sure that if he does come across your problem then Steve would be glad to fix them, but that is impossible if he does not know where they originate from. He also said that he appreciates posts like yours b/c now he knows what to look out for, so thank you for that. you probably brought up some good points and you should credit the developers for listening, giving you a good reason as to why it can not be addressed at the present moment, and for making sure that they will try their best to address the problem as soon as they can come across the problem.

i am upset for you that the product has not been to your greatest satisfaction. i myself enjoy the product and will for a long time. you did the right thing by pointing out problems but please try next time to state them more calmly. even if it were your intention to be calm and respectful, some of the words your used did not make it sound as if those were your intentions to the people in this board. that, i am sure, is what angered some people and led them to reply in the state of anger in which they replied to you. so please, understand that there are a number of people here who want to help. please understand, that while i am not defending them, that there are a number of people who are tired of hearing/reading things from people like you, that have problems with the game and state it angrily, and for those reasons respond back with anger. understand that this is a huge community of beta-testers, developers, fans, and newcomers who want to make OOTP the best sim-based baseball came in the planet. if you see promise in this franchise, let us please all act civilized and just try our best to state potential problems to Markus and the others so that future products of OOTP will be better.

hey, at least these guys try...many developers ignore their users and consumer and just rerelease the same product with updated rosters and one NEW feature (created players, a batting practice, homerun derby, just for example of past video games) let us give credit to OOTP and their developers for bringing us the best game possible. with our insight and comments we could make OOTP the best sim-based baseball game.

[spleen1015]

Man, I hate to give a Yankee fan credit , but I have to. Well said, YankeePride.